Evidence of meeting #35 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was scisa.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Daniel Therrien  Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Hugues La Rue
Wesley Wark  Visiting Professor, Graduate School of Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Tamir Israel  Staff Lawyer, Samuelson-Glushko Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

I'll make a final quick point. We are trying to remove all the variables through more accurate, if you will, legislation. But the variable factor will always be those people who are holding the information and what they do with it. If you look south of the border again, so I don't have to refer to any north-of-the-border ones, you go from Hoover to Comey and you see all sorts of behaviours that are of interest to the public in this general context.

Mr. Wark, how does the public ever have reassurance that the legislation is drafted properly and that it's in safe hands, other than by having an oversight body?

12:55 p.m.

Visiting Professor, Graduate School of Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Wesley Wark

I think the question of safe hands is critical, Mr. Bratina. I would say that a long study of the history and practices of the Canadian security intelligence community, which goes back decades, indicates that on the whole we conduct security and intelligence practices in a lawful manner and that a culture of lawfulness is actually deeply embedded in the core security and intelligence agencies.

One of the concerns I have about SCISA in that context is that if you draw in agencies from outside of that core that do not have a proper understanding of national security and maybe don't have that culture of lawfulness around complex national security issues, you're going to create problems that otherwise wouldn't be there and don't need to be there.

We have faced scandals in the past and examples of unlawful activity, and no doubt those will occur in the future. But fortunately, in the Canadian context, they're rare in number and I don't think we need to worry about the Canadian security and intelligence community being at heart unlawful or lacking that culture. I think the culture is strong, and, to a certain extent, has been reinforced in Canadian practice by some of the difficult experiences of working, frankly, with the United States as an intelligence partner and ally post-9/11.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Thank you.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

I'm sorry, but we're out of time.

Thank you Professor Wark and Mr. Israel for shedding light on these issues.

This concludes our meeting. We'll see each other again next Thursday.

The meeting is adjourned.