Information & Ethics Committee on Feb. 7th, 2017

[Victoria Fuller]

The consular database is information received from Canadian citizens who have sought consular assistance abroad. That database is restricted to the consular program only within Global Affairs. So, any information in that database is covered under the Privacy Act. To access information that I would hold would require a request under one of the authorities from another government department before we would take a decision on whether that threshold was met and what would be shared.

[David Drake]

Just to be absolutely clear, while my title includes “intelligence”, this is really as a result of the requirement to make sure that my group is connecting with the intelligence agencies. We are not an intelligence agency ourselves. The term is perhaps a bit open to a misunderstanding, but it's other organizations that do that, not us. We act as an interface.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Thank you, Mr. Massé. We're already at six minutes.

We'll have Mr. Kelly again for five minutes, please.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you. I'm going to continue right where my colleague left off and perhaps allow Ms. Fuller to continue with this.

I want to make sure I understood you correctly. The pre-existing authorities for information sharing did not move quickly enough to maximize your ability, or to have the ability, to quickly assist, for example, a Canadian detained abroad. When time is a critical factor in being able either to assist a Canadian or to prevent a crime from being committed, SCISA allows for greater efficiency and, perhaps, professionalism in the dealing and exchange of information because it is a single act for 17 agencies. Is that a fair characterization of your response?

[Victoria Fuller]

Previously, there was an ability to share information. The challenge was that while consular works 24/7, and we have a 24/7 watch and response centre and are accessible at all hours of the day, other departments, especially officials in the privacy area who would have to sign off on disclosures, do not work on that same cycle. To track them down and to disclose lawfully and properly with the advance authority was much more of a bureaucratic hurdle for us.

The introduction of SCISA has allowed the decision to be taken at headquarters very quickly based on the ability to call on people who know they could be called in the middle of the night to make a quick decision, and to get all the information, including the legal opinion, and whatever's required. It has provided a mechanism with our partner departments so they can access that information in a secure way.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Okay, thank you.

Since we have different departments here today, maybe I'll go to a question that will allow each department to address some of the criticisms of SCISA that we have heard from past witnesses. We've had other witnesses who have characterized SCISA as a calculated piece of legislation designed to enable government agencies to collect and exchange bulk data on a massive scale, both between departments in Canada and with foreign governments.

I'll perhaps let each department representative here quickly comment on that characterization that other critics have made.

[Terry Jamieson]

Well, I'd like to stress that the CNSC does not collect personal information in the context of security, so we would not say that that's the case.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Okay.

[Glen Linder]

In terms of IRCC, SCISA contains no new authorities with respect to collection. When we do obtain information from applicants who are seeking benefits under our existing legislative authorities—be it the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act or the Citizenship Act—disclosure of that information, as I mentioned before, is done on a case-by-case basis. Again, SCISA only permits disclosure to the 16 other listed agencies.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

So nuanced and targeted collection in sharing is what you would make use of under SCISA, not the bulk sharing of large pools of data?

[Glen Linder]

I'm not even aware of there being an ability to share bulk data under SCISA.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I raise it because it has been discussed by the witnesses.

Mr. Drake.

[David Drake]

I know you've had previous discussions about this with relevant parts of our organization. Certainly, from my department's perspective, it's simply not an issue. We don't deal with bulk data, and we certainly don't share it. We don't share any information under SCISA outside of the federal government.

I think, from my reading of the previous testimony, others have answered your query.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Cossette.

[Gérald Cossette]

From the different business sectors, we only receive information that is designated under the legislation. It may be semantics to people, but we do not collect information; we receive information. We have no authority to go back to a financial institution and ask. So what we receive is what we have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

We're at five minutes now, Mr. Kelly.

Mr. Dubourg, you have five minutes.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to say hello to the witnesses. There are many of you here to answer our questions. Thank you for being here.

My next question concerns the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada. It's for Mr. Cossette.

You presented your brief. It concerned FINTRAC's mandate and the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act. You said that, since the legislation's implementation, you haven't proceeded with any information sharing.

Under these conditions, I want to know why it's necessary to be one of the 17 institutions included in the legislation, in terms of information sharing.

[Gérald Cossette]

The legislation itself doesn't change our ability to receive or share information. However, it gives other departments that didn't have the authority to share information with us the ability to do so now.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Okay.

[Gérald Cossette]

As a result, the institutions and citizens that communicate with us under these circumstances would have more authority than certain departments in possession of relevant information.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

In other words, if you have information regarding terrorism, for example, you have the authority to share it with others.

[Gérald Cossette]

We had the authority before, but we could share the information only with the institutions mentioned in the legislation, meaning our own legislation and not the legislation on information sharing.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I imagine that the Canada Revenue Agency is likely one of the agencies you deal with the most.

[Gérald Cossette]

No. The RCMP and law enforcement in major Canadian cities receive the most information from our agency. We communicated 204 times with the Canada Revenue Agency last year. However, to communicate with the Canada Revenue Agency, we first need to establish that money laundering then tax evasion occurred. Two thresholds must be reached in the Canada Revenue Agency's case.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Okay.

I know that FINTRAC closely monitors electronic funds transfers of over $10,000.