Evidence of meeting #1 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
—I'd like to have clarification on the speakers list. Are there hands raised already, or do we take our hands down and go back on?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Right now, I have Mr. Warkentin, and that's all I have on the speakers list for this motion.
Liberal
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Okay. We have Mr. Angus and Madam Shanahan as well.
Go ahead, Mr. Warkentin.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB
I know that time is of the essence. I think that Canadians expect us to get a move on. Obviously prorogation shut down the work of this committee, and they would expect us to expeditiously move back to uncovering the truth that so many Canadians are desperate to learn.
I would move that we move to a vote as soon as possible so that we can finalize this before we have other responsibilities.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I'll keep my remarks very short.
It's what I said earlier: Our work was interrupted by the Prime Minister's decision to shut down the work of Parliament, and we have many outstanding issues that need to be addressed. These documents, I believe, have already been obtained. Our committee needs to access those documents.
If we move to a larger committee in which all of these issues are brought together, those documents could be moved over. I can't see that there would be any reason to interfere with a vote that our committee has already taken. We need to access those documents and move on. I say let's move to a vote.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Mr. Speaker, during the last session when we were speaking about this kind of motion, we moved a motion regarding the in camera treatment of the documents. I'm not able to look at it right now, but I would like to suspend for five minutes, with your permission. If we could suspend for five minutes, we could take a look at whether, if we bring back the work of the previous session, we do so in its entirety. I would look for the concurrence of the other members of the committee.
I think we spoke at length about how important it was for the privacy and confidentiality of these personal documents of individuals who are not members of Parliament, who are family members, to be safeguarded in every respect. I think that all members here—those who were with us in the last session and new members here now—can appreciate that it is not the place of this committee to expose people for no other reason than that they happen to be related or otherwise connected.
I think we saw that the code is connected with members of Parliament. I think we saw in the code of ethics, as well, a very particular definition about which family members are connected to any investigation. I think it would be very important for us to look at all of those parameters, and if it is the will of this committee to bring back the examination of those documents, that it be done as we had agreed to in the last session.
I ask your indulgence to suspend for five minutes so that we could look at those conditions, and perhaps it can be a friendly amendment to the motion at hand.
Thank you, Chair.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you, Madam Shanahan.
I would like to exhaust the list of the other speakers who have put up their hands. However, I think it's not a leap for me to say that whenever we request documents, we have a legal obligation as a standing committee in regard to those documents. It would be my understanding that we certainly wouldn't want to break any privacy laws or anything in that regard, and a clerk would be looking at them.
I will go to the other—
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I don't want to interrupt other speakers, but I certainly concur with Madame Shanahan. These are very special documents, and we had an arrangement to ensure the protection of them. I think COVID has made it a little more complex, in that many members of Parliament are no longer able to observe personally, so I would agree with suspending for five minutes to see if we can work out the arrangement on this.
We have to ensure that we're doing the right thing with these documents. These documents are very, very important. However, we had an agreement, so I would support the motion to suspend to see if we can come up with a fair way of showing that we are going to treat these documents with care.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Is there some consensus in that regard?
I didn't see a lot of heads nodding, so I'm going to go to the next speaker.
Go ahead, Mr. Fergus.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you very much.
Maybe this might clarify it. I certainly understand the points that Ms. Shanahan brought up. Also, I understand what Mr. Angus has brought up, but, Mr. Chair—and it's no fault of your own, this being the first meeting in which you're sitting in the chair—we did spend a considerable amount of time on coming to a hard-fought consensus to try to figure out a way, as Mr. Angus and Ms. Shanahan pointed out, for us to respect the privacy of these documents that are being brought up. You quite instinctively and naturally, and with your longer parliamentary experience, raised the issue of that kind of fairness.
Mr. Angus is correct that the situation has changed because of the pandemic. I'm not certain we can give this justice in five minutes if we just proceed straight to a vote with no consideration to figuring out a way to respect the intent of the context that we set around the viewing of those documents in the last Parliament, while still making sure we can bring that work forward and discharge our work properly, and this in the context of a pandemic.
I'm trying to figure out the process if just five minutes won't do it justice. I don't want to delay this. I'm certain Mr. Barrett is thinking, “Ah, he's just looking to delay.” I'm actually trying to just figure this out. We need to have some time to figure this out.
Things have been really complexified by the fact that we're working online now. That was precisely the type of argument we made. We didn't want to distribute those documents electronically, because once it's out electronically, it's out. That's the reason we put on such special measures to make sure that we were respecting the privacy of the people from whom we requested these documents.
I'm trying to figure out how you find that balance, Mr. Chair. I turn to you and the clerk. All I know is that I bet you dollars to doughnuts that we're not going to figure this out in five minutes. I don't know what we should do here.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you, Mr. Fergus.
I still have Mr. Sorbara on the speakers list. Please go ahead.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to Mr. Barrett for his motion.
There was a question posed to the clerk. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you mentioned that we would get the answer from the clerk at some point during this meeting about what the committee can and can't do in terms of recommendations and basically what the role or mandate of the committee is.
As a new member of the committee, I would ask if we can get that answer. If I can ask for it now, I'd like to have that answer now. I would like to know, as a new member of the committee, what the mandate of this committee is.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Well, Mr. Sorbara, we can recommend anything as a standing committee. We are masters of our own destiny in that regard.
I think there may be a paragraph on what our mandate is. I can certainly have the clerk read that out, now that we've had a couple of suggestions, unless there's some objection to that.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
If people show up at a committee and don't know what the committee is for, I don't think we should be taking up valuable time to update them and educate them. Their job is to be prepared.
We have a very important issue to deal with. I think we should deal with the issue and try to find a solution if a solution is possible.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Chair, my question was not in reference to whether a certain member had done or not done their homework prior to coming to committee. My question was about a motion for the committee to look at setting up a committee, a special committee, and whether that was in the purview of the role and mandate of the committee, which is not in itself a small matter.