Evidence of meeting #12 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobbying.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
I have one last question. We saw in your presentation that the registry was very popular and that the number of registered individuals has greatly increased.
Which are the four or five most popular departments when it comes to the currently tracked issues?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
The House of Commons is not a department, but it is ranked first out of all the institutions. I think that Innovation, Sciences and Economic Development Canada is second. Then come the Department of Finance and Health Canada.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you, Ms. Bélanger and Mr. Gourde.
Ms. Lattanzio, please go ahead for five minutes.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Commissioner Bélanger, for being present among us today. I'm new on this committee, and I must admit this is quite the meeting, and very informative to say the least.
Would you say there is a pervasive problem in Canada with regard to lobbyists trying to circumvent registration and reporting requirements?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
No. I meet lobbyists a lot, and they are government relations experts. They work on their reputation, and nobody wants to be on the front page news as possibly having committed a criminal offence, so no, I don't believe that.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
I've listened to the questions posed by my colleagues and your answers. Since it is the lobbyist that has the obligation to register, how about the reporting of interactions with someone such as myself, since I am a designated public office holder? Where does the onus lie in regard to the tracking and the reporting of the interactions that we've had?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Lobbyists have the obligation to go into the registry and record that they've met with you, and about what topic. They'll put in the date, your name and the topic of conversation.
I do a sample check, so you may get an email from me asking you to verify information. My recommendation, every time I meet any designated public office holder, is to please keep your calendar, your agenda, very clear about whom you met and about what, so that when we do reach out to you, you are able to confirm the information. It's really to ensure you keep your information live about who you met and about what topic.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Obviously, the onus of the registration, the tracking of it, is on the lobbyist.
November 27th, 2020 / 2:45 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
It is, although in the act, you have an obligation to reply to me when I ask you to verify.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Just to make sure I understand, I would like to run a quick check of the following scenario based on my understanding of the answers. Clearly, I'm a designated public office holder, and I do from time to time meet with people, with different associations and people and parties that are interested and classify themselves as lobbyists. When I do meet with them, I typically take their meeting with me at face value. Mainly, they have registered, as required, as you said a few minutes ago, and I have to log the intervention I had with them.
If in fact they were not registered and had not logged the interaction, that error or omission is on them. Am I correct to assume that?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, absolutely.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Okay. Do I have any requirements to look into their registration status myself?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
You do not have that obligation under the law currently, although I encourage you to do so, but only because it has happened very often that I have allegations and will reach out to every one of you because you become witnesses in my preliminary assessments and in my investigations. If I ask, “How was this meeting?”, it's not up to you to check that they're registered lobbyists, but I highly recommend that you do.
I actually tell your staffers, whenever I meet with them—and I met a number of them yesterday—to check the registry before they meet with somebody. You'll see who they've met with before and about what topic. It's an interesting—
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Sorry, I don't mean to cut you off.
Speaking of staff, I'm going to take it further and basically ask you the same question. Of course my staff will not have that obligation either, correct?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
That is correct.
Liberal
Patricia Lattanzio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
For the sake of clarification, I'll give you another example. Do companies and individuals selling products to the government have to register as lobbyists? For example, do Microsoft salespeople need to register the meetings they had with government officials? Do they have that obligation?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
If all they're doing is selling a product, because it's a contract issue, then no. If they're meeting with you to try to get you to develop a program or policy or want to talk to you about a regulation you're working on or legislation you're working on, then yes. If they're selling products, then no.
Liberal
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
We're going to move on to a rapid-fire round.
Go ahead, Madame Gaudreau.
Go ahead for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. You said it very well.
I will tie this in to what was just mentioned.
Ms. Bélanger, you were talking about recommendations. If something was recommended to a member without specific duties or to a member of the government with extensive public duties who must ensure the public's confidence, your recommendation would be very valuable to show leadership responsibility. That is my understanding.
In the act, the responsibility is not prescribed....
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I think Madame Gaudreau didn't switch her channel to French. Her voice is much louder on my microphone than the interpreter's voice. I can't hear what the interpreter is saying.
I'm sorry about that, Madame Gaudreau.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Okay, we'll just check with Madame Gaudreau. I'll add to your speaking time.
Continue, Ms. Gaudreau.