The first inkling I had that there was a big problem with WE Charity—and it was very public—was a 2010 Globe and Mail article. It was about two pages in The Globe and Mail. It was very long. I still remember reading it on an airplane a long time ago, and there were lots of questions that came out of it.
From about 2010, then, I think it would have been pretty clear to people. Anyone in the charity sector who's ever spoken to three people who worked at WE would have some interesting stories to tell you. WE was just very much unlike any other group I've ever seen.
Then also Canadaland, which is a news podcast sort of site, did some extensive coverage around 2018-2019 on a number of issues that were very public and very much out there. I would say that even for a $500,000 grant, one would easily have been able to pick up these many issues if one wanted to pick them up.
I don't know if that answers your question, but I would say that there definitely could be some huge improvements. On the one hand, I sort of hope that it was inappropriate pressure by the finance minister, because I'm a big believer in government and governmental action and I think the government in general has done a lot of good things during COVID. I would prefer that it not be a problem of ESDC really thinking this was a great charity, because if it did think that it was a great charity, uniquely able to do this and all that, then I think there have probably got to be some changes there.
I'm not hoping that's the right answer, but I unfortunately don't know and I think that's why we need a public inquiry to actually look deep into these issues, because it involves not just this money but lots of other money. The charity sector, the non-profit sector and many parts of society are very reliant on ESDC, and we want to make sure there's great decision-making going on there.