Information & Ethics Committee on Dec. 11th, 2020

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, maybe I could just reiterate that there was no short list. We actually made a practice, including for those thousands of companies I mentioned, of being systematic in getting back to each one with a phone call or some sort of return engagement. We met with, I think, probably more than 1,000 of the 6,000 directly. At the end of the day, obviously only a smaller number would have actually done business with the government, but it was our practice to meet everybody to get a sense of what their capabilities were.

At the end of the day, I participated in a brief meeting with Palantir, where we politely told them that they didn't have anything to offer us.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

That's all the time we have, Mr. Kennedy. Thank you very much.

Mr. Kennedy, by the way, I'm not offended whatsoever, but just for the blues, maybe you should call me Mr. Chair rather than Madam Chair, and then that way there would be some—

[Simon Kennedy]

I'm sorry—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

It's okay. It's all right.

[Simon Kennedy]

I'm looking at the clerk on the screen.

I apologize, sir, absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

All I'm saying is that the transcript people will get confused. That's all.

[Simon Kennedy]

Yes, sir. I'm sorry about that.

I was looking at the clerk. My apologies.

Thank you, Mr. Sweet.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

As I said, I'm not offended whatsoever.

[Simon Kennedy]

No, but you could be if you wished to be. I apologize.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

That's okay.

That's all the time for that questioner.

Now we will go to Mr. Sorbara for six minutes.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, everybody. Welcome, Deputy Minister Kennedy.

It is Friday afternoon, the last day of sitting, and the ethics committee is definitely doing its job today.

Mr. Kennedy, first of all, how long have you served as deputy minister in your role at ISED?

[Simon Kennedy]

I have been in this role at ISED, Mr. Chair, just over a year. It's my second term in the department. I was a senior associate deputy minister in the department about 10 years ago or so, so it's about three years and a bit in total, but it's one year in this particular role.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you for your service in this most unique and extraordinary period of time that our country faces and the world faces.

You indicated in your opening remarks that there's a strong relationship between the private sector and your department, and that ISED's ability and willingness to engage with businesses is critical to ISED's ability to deliver on its mandate. Can you expand on this and tell us what changed during the pandemic? For example, the SIF program changed from one mandate to another. If you can explain that, it would be great.

[Simon Kennedy]

I would say that ISED's role is one that involves extensive engagement with industry. In addition to working directly with firms, for example, to help them with the development of technology to support their business plans, we also have to engage with firms regularly to better understand Canadian industry, so that, for example, if there's a crisis or if something happens, we will have knowledgeable civil servants who know the companies, know the management teams and have a sense of the financial strengths and capabilities of the firms. That's important information that the government might need.

In the case of the pandemic, as an example, we were able to bring some of that expertise to bear in a couple of ways. One is that we have a variety of programs to assist industry, not just in my ministry specifically but in the broader portfolio, the ISED portfolio. We have the industrial research assistance program, which I think many members would know about, that is run by the National Research Council. We have the strategic innovation fund, which is run by my organization. We have Innovative Solutions Canada. We have a whole host of programming that supports business.

A lot of that programming had to be adjusted rapidly and pivoted because of the pandemic, for a couple of reasons. For example, there are firms that receive repayable contributions. We make a significant contribution to them to develop a new business line or a new technology, but then if that's successful, they will repay the Crown. They will repay the taxpayer over time. We may have had to adjust the schedule of repayments, because some of those firms are facing serious financial issues.

The bottom line may be—I know you may wish to ask other questions—we actually deal with business as a matter of routine day in and day out across a wide range of areas. I personally speak to a lot of business people and receive solicitations and requests literally daily, and that's just part of our—

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Perhaps I will ask a quick follow-up question on your remarks today.

Is it practice that within the department, you consult with stakeholders on relevant legislation and government programs that you may be considering?

[Simon Kennedy]

Yes, I would say that's practice. Sometimes that might be informal; you're just taking a sounding. Other times, we will have formal consultation and we'll put a paper out. That's very much routine.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Since the pandemic began—effectively at the beginning of the year—and the government rolled out a number of emergency programs to help Canadian workers and Canadian businesses, would you say lobbying has increased in your department?

[Simon Kennedy]

Unquestionably. By the nature of our organization, we are lobbied extensively. If you look at the lobbying commissioner's reports, you'll see that ISED is always near the top of the list. Certainly our engagement with industry has gone up even higher during the pandemic. The member's conjecture is probably accurate. There has probably been an actual intensification of our engagement since the pandemic.

However, I'd maybe just mention to members that we're already an organization that deals extensively with the private sector and gets lobbied frequently.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Okay.

To follow up, on the SIF program, can you elaborate on how that program was transitioned or pivoted to assist in getting PPE or specialized equipment and worked with Canadian companies to ensure that Canadians were kept safe during the pandemic?

[Simon Kennedy]

The government announced additional funding for the SIF to support the government's efforts to respond to COVID-19. A number of very large investments have been made through SIF. I can give a couple of examples.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Sure.

[Simon Kennedy]

One would be Medicago, of Quebec City. Medicago is a Canadian vaccine company with a very promising vaccine. They received a contribution of $173 million through the SIF program to build out domestic biomanufacturing capacity. There have been other investments such as that through SIF.

The other thing was that we worked very closely with all our existing clients who have received SIF contributions, basically to try to protect the Crown's investment and make sure those companies were able to bridge to the other side. We would look at their repayment schedules. We would look at whether they were experiencing financial distress and how we could maybe adjust their agreements so that they could bridge to the other side of the pandemic.

SIF has pivoted to focus on support for large-scale biomanufacturing and production of materials needed to protect Canadians. We have also pivoted some of the way we administer SIF to try to provide relief to companies so that, frankly, a government program isn't part of the reason they might be facing solvency problems.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much. That's all the time you have.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Deputy Minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Kennedy, we swim in an ocean of acronyms, but there might be a small cadre of people listening.

Could you tell us what “SIF” is an acronym for, please?