Evidence of meeting #20 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pornhub.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:10 p.m.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
All this should never have happened to you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
3:10 p.m.
Conservative
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
First of all, I want to thank our witness panel today. You are being very brave in coming forward to share your very upsetting experiences with Pornhub. You are speaking for many others and I want to thank you for that.
Ms. Galy, in your testimony you mentioned that you tried to reach out to Pornhub, even to the point that they responded that you could go ahead and sue them, because you would have to do it in Cyprus. Can you elaborate on that a bit and tell us what they said? What was the rationale that made them feel so protected and untouchable?
We are here to correct what's going on and investigate what's been done to the vulnerable individuals we have heard from so far.
3:10 p.m.
As an Individual
I actually have the emails where I communicated with them.
Initially when I started preparing my pro se civil suit against Pornhub, I looked to see if there was a registered agent for service of process in Tennessee, because that's where I live. Of course, nothing came back. I found a database that had Internet service providers and a listing of their registered agents for service of process.
I did find, at that time, that there was a registered agent for service of process in California, and that's where I attempted service first. It was CT Corporation in California. When they received the summons from the clerk for service, they sent me a letter that they didn't have that company registered and that they were not able to serve them.
That is when I started reaching out to Pornhub legal again and asking them if they had a registered agent for service of process, because I couldn't find anything. That's when Chantale Pittarelli, their director of legal services, told me that I must serve them in Cyprus. I have an email from her basically giving me the address for service of process.
I asked her, to whose attention, who would accept this? Should I put it to the owner of MG Freesites Ltd.? She basically told me, no, just send it to MG Freesites Ltd. at that address in Cyprus. Like I said, I started doing some research and I found under the Hague Convention that postal service, postal means, was allowed under the convention.
I've sent it out and I haven't received back from the post office whether or not they've been served. I was told it would take at least a couple of weeks. It's been one week since that has been sent out, so I don't know if I will be successful, if they will sign for it. They could refuse it as it's in English, and they could demand that it be translated to another language. I think the Hague Convention has those specific terms.
Even though I'm hopeful that I will have service of process on them within the next week, there's still no guarantee. Like I said, they have the right to refuse it as it's in English and that may not be their primary language.
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Thank you, Ms. Galy.
My second question is to all of the panellists.
We've heard previously that Pornhub intentionally makes the process of taking down the videos very difficult. They will ask individuals to provide IDs to prove that's who they are. Did you experience the same thing with Pornhub? Did you have to provide multiple identifications of yourself to prove that you are the actual person?
We can start with Ms. Galy, and then guest one and guest two.
3:15 p.m.
As an Individual
As far as identification is concerned, they never asked me for a driver's licence or anything like that. Like I said, I put together a clear PowerPoint presentation with basically photos of my entire body matching up side-by-side with the person in the video—my birthmark, a skin tag that I have in a private area. Like I said, it was a very detailed—I think over a hundred pages—of PowerPoint presentation proving why it was me and why it was not Laura and Lauri, the couple who claimed my videos. The couple in the videos clearly did not match the couple claiming the videos.
To answer your question, no, they never asked me to personally provide them with any identification, other than their initial refusal to take it down and what I voluntarily provided in hope that they would listen and take it down.
3:15 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Thank you.
To the other two panellists, feel free if you're not comfortable to answer this, and I'll move on to my next question.
3:15 p.m.
As an Individual
They never asked me for proof that it was me, but I believe that [Technical difficulty—Editor] provided police reference codes from the beginning when I first contacted them after getting in contact with the police.
3:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I didn't have to give any ID or anything either. To be fair, the RCMP had already talked to them about this video, so I guess they were a little more amenable to sort of, kind of taking part of it down. They still haven't really.
3:15 p.m.
Conservative
3:15 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It's hard to contain my anger, ladies. I must tell you how incredibly brave you are. Thank you for sharing your stories, especially since this meeting is public, as you know.
Today, you are again having to speak out about what happened and explain your stories. However, you are still being victimized and suffering the consequences, which will no doubt affect you for a long time to come. That was clear from your statements.
We all wish you could turn the clock back, but as I've told other witnesses, what you're doing will make a difference going forward. The take-away from your stories is very clear to us, as lawmakers: immediate action is paramount.
I have all the information I need to conclude that responding quickly matters a whole lot. It's a matter of dignity, respect and the protection of privacy. Your stories have shown us just how quickly something needs to be done.
With your permission, I'd like you to take a few moments to send a message to women who are in the same situation as you. I'd also like to give you this forum, this opportunity, to address the executives we heard from at our last meeting; they told the committee that they weren't really aware of any problems with consent management or the removal of videos. You can have the next few moments to say publicly what you would like to both of those groups.
Would guest one like to go first?
3:20 p.m.
As an Individual
I want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to be here today, because I think part of it, for me, is the temptation to take on so much of the shame from this. I think it's important for other people who are maybe watching this to know that what happened is not your fault. You don't have to take on the shame for someone else's criminal behaviour. Don't do it alone, either, because the silence sort of multiplies the damage.
As far as Pornhub is concerned, quite frankly, they're kind of liars, because, yes, they absolutely knew. The day they were here telling you that they're super helpful and they care so deeply, they were still emailing back and forth with me and it sounds like with a couple of other people here too. This isn't something they fixed two or three or five years ago and now they're these good guys. I emailed them so many times: The police have talked to you about this video, so why am I still naked on the Internet?
Twice they sent me the Google link and told me to go deal with it myself. Once they told me that my videos never even existed on their site, so I should probably go talk to whatever site they were on. But I have copies of what I sent them. I sent them links to their own site. I sent them screenshots. They hadn't even bothered to look for anything.
3:20 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you very much.
Would guest two like to say something to victims and the executives in charge?
3:20 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes. I would say to the other women and girls who are going through this that the more people who tell their stories, the more powerful all our voices will be and the more people will actually pay attention to what's going on.
As for Pornhub, they are liars. I don't appreciate how in their testimony they used having children almost as a crutch to prove their empathy for us. They like to say how they have children and they understand how painful it must be. To me, it makes it worse that they have children, they know what's going on in their business and they've done absolutely nothing to stop it.
3:20 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Do you have anything you'd like to say, Ms. Galy?
3:20 p.m.
Conservative
3:20 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I want to thank you for your brave testimony. It shakes us up. What you're doing today matters—
3:20 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
My apologies, Mr. Chair. I forgot to mute my mike.
3:20 p.m.
Conservative
3:20 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you.
I want to thank you, witnesses, for your incredible bravery. As a father, I can't even imagine the trauma you've gone through.
I'm going to ask you to walk with me through some questions. The reason it's so important is that what we do here as a committee is kind of like a court in a way. We gather evidence, and out of the evidence we can prepare the reports that will go to Parliament about whether or not we need to change laws or whether we need to find out why laws are not being enforced.
Your willingness to give me clear and simple answers will help us in our work.
Witness 2, did I hear you correctly that you were 15 or 16 when this began to happen to you?
