Evidence of meeting #24 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have a point of order.
It is customary in committees to give members a bit more time when they ask English-speaking witnesses questions in French because the interpretation causes significant delays—through no fault of the interpreters, who do an excellent job.
I just wanted to bring that to your attention and see whether you might be a bit more flexible with time given the interpretation delays when members ask questions in French.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you.
Witnesses, interpretation has asked that you not place your water glasses near the mike. It's causing some additional noise for them.
We're going to turn to Mr. Angus for his first round of questions.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, gentlemen, for coming to our hearing so we can finally get this report to Parliament.
We learned today that you are not under investigation by the RCMP and the CRA. Is that correct?
Founder, WE Charity
Sir, we don't know the answer to that question. We know that a week ago you put on letterhead and made your call public.
NDP
Founder, WE Charity
Sir, the RCMP has not contacted us on the matter you wrote about.
Founder, WE Charity
We provided all the information when we did our retroactive filing and completed all the paperwork from the lobbying commissioner. In an abundance of caution, we chose to fulfill that.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you so much for that. Because of what we are reading in the media about what we couldn't and could ask, I am glad you could clarify that.
You came to our committee last July. You insisted on coming, on swearing under oath. We were not investigating WE Charity at all. You insisted on coming at a time when one of my Conservative colleagues had already written to the RCMP asking for an investigation, so that's that.
What's different between then and now is we didn't have access to the 5,000 pages of documents. Back then we could believe you or not believe you. We had to trust because we didn't have documents.
A number of things in there are serious inconsistencies. You said a number of times Canada called you, that you were responding to Canada's call. We now know that's not true.
Craig, you called Canada. You called Bill Morneau. You said, “Hi Bill, I hope this finds you, Nancy, Henry, Clare, Edward, and Grace enjoying some well-deserved downtime over Easter together." You were pitching for $12 million. You contacted Minister Ng, Minister Chagger. You had that meeting with her on April 17.
I ask because you were not registered to lobby and you say that out of an abundance of caution your group registered after it became a big issue. Don't you think you would have saved yourselves a lot of grief if you had just followed the rules like other charities do?
Founder, WE Charity
Sir, in your statement there are a multitude of falsehoods. We did not push to come back in the summer. We were asked, and we came voluntarily.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
That's not the fact.
Anyway, the question is about lobbying, so let's get to lobbying.
Founder, WE Charity
As a volunteer for the charity, and as you are aware, volunteers are not required to register for lobbying, and most importantly is the false characterization of what took place. On April 19 I was contacted—
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
No, sorry, on April 17 you met but I'm asking about lobbying. The fact that you're a volunteer—come on, Craig. We're not dummies here. You guys run this organization. You're a volunteer who has a chief of staff who is paid for by the charity. That's ridiculous.
The fact is you have a director of government relations who wasn't registered to lobby. You were hiring a manager of government relations. I guess that person wasn't going to be registered to lobby, and you handled all the negotiations.
The idea that you are just this gung-ho volunteer with your own chief of staff paid for by the charity with all the meetings in advance—why didn't you just register to lobby, and we wouldn't be wasting our time with this?
Founder, WE Charity
Sir, it is literally not possible for a volunteer to register to lobby. If you would like to change the law, I invite you to do so.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I guess that's why you got Guy Giorno. I was trying to figure out why you guys got Guy Giorno, of all things, and I looked up his web page and he deals with corruption and he deals with lobbying.
So, Craig, you are the voice of the charity. You and your brother run everything. You fired the head of the board of directors of the charity. Now you're telling me it's impossible for you to even legally register to lobby.
Come on, guys. If you had only registered, you would not have been in this issue.
Founder, WE Charity
It is not possible for a volunteer to lobby. I invite you to change the law should you as a member of Parliament choose.
As to the number of false statements, we did not fire the board of directors, to be very clear. These are the types of false statements that we've identified.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
We had Michelle Douglas as a witness, and she said that Marc got mad at her and hung up because she asked about the finances.
Volunteers don't get to do that, Craig. Nobody is buying this.
Conservative
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
I appreciate the spirited exchange here, but is it not the usual practice that the witness addresses us through you, Chair, and the same for the members? I don't know, I'm not comfortable with the first-name basis and that kind of exchange.