Information & Ethics Committee on March 29th, 2021

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

You suggested that we might have a little discussion about Mr. Li, but for the moment, I'll just speak to Mr. Fortin's motion, which will soon be provided to all members.

My question is about ministerial responsibility. This is an extremely important question for all of us as members of this committee.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Recognizing a point of order from Mr. Fortin, please go ahead.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I just want to say that the debate our colleague, Mr. Fergus, is proposing took place on Thursday. Arguments about whether to summon Mr. Theis or the possibility of another minister replacing the Prime Minister or Mr. Theis may be good or bad, but the debate is over. It was over on Thursday when a motion was adopted.

Quite simply, the witnesses are not here today. Let's notify the House that the witness didn't obey the order it gave, period. That's all I'm asking. The House will decide what to do about it.

A debate about whether Mr. Rodriguez should appear instead of the witness the House ordered to appear is not on our agenda. Hearing from Rick Theis is on our agenda. He's not here, so let's report to the House, period. Then let's move on to the next item of business.

I think we should hear from Mr. Rodriguez. It's a good idea.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Monsieur Fortin.

I think because I get a sense that this debate could carry on for some time, I'm going to take the chair's prerogative and simply ask committee members, does anybody oppose hearing from Mr. Rodriguez at this meeting?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair, but—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Monsieur Fergus opposes. Is that correct, Mr. Fergus?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Chair, I don't want to answer your question because I was sharing my perspective on Mr. Fortin's motion.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

It's not being debated right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Colleagues, I'm taking the chair's prerogative and I'm going to call this meeting to order. I'm going to ask again: Is anybody opposed to hearing from Mr. Rodriguez at this point?

Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Chair, can I ask you a very simple question, please?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Do you object? Are you objecting to hearing from the government House leader?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Mr. Fergus opposes.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, what happens to the motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Is anybody else opposed to hearing from Mr. Rodriguez at this point? Could you please raise your hand.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

I'm seeing there is support to hear from Mr. Rodriguez.

We'll turn to Mr. Rodriguez for his opening statement.

Mr. Rodriguez.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Monsieur Fergus, point of order.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Chair, you said that there was a motion before us and that we couldn't raise any points of order.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

No, there's no motion.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Yes, Mr. Fortin moved a motion. I said I would limit my comments to that.

Mr. Chair, I don't understand why you aren't letting me just express my point of view on that.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

There's no motion being debated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Colleagues, we have a decision to make.

My sense that this is going to be a debate that will extend for some time. The motion had nothing to do with whether or not we would hear from Mr. Rodriguez today. It had everything to do with if or not we would report back to the House the absence of the witnesses whom the House had instructed us to hear from today.

The question that I have for committee members, out of respect for Mr. Rodriguez and the fact that he now only has two and a half hours left for his appearance, is whether we would allow him to speak and we would get back to the motion at hand following his testimony.

I think I'm getting a sense from members that this is the way they'd like to proceed.

Mr. Fergus, I understand that you would not like to proceed that way, but—

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

On a point of order, Chair, we want to know if there's a motion on the floor or not.