Evidence of meeting #26 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
That's not it at all. When asked whether Rick Theis knew that the Prime Minister's wife's trip to London was paid for, you said you didn't know.
Who should we ask that question if Mr. Theis does not obey Parliament's orders and if you do not know?
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Liberal
4:40 p.m.
Bloc
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Bloc
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you, Monsieur Fortin. Your time is up.
I will allow the minister to answer.
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Liberal
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Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
The “humble servant” doesn't know the answer. That is a rather humble response.
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Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you, Monsieur Fortin.
We're going to turn to Mr. Angus now for the next round of questions.
Mr. Angus, you have two and a half minutes.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
You seemed surprised when we mentioned 5,000 pages of documents. Well, we have to read them.
I would like to ask you how many times Mr. Theis was briefed on the Canada summer student service grant.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I can tell you I was around the first time it was supposed to go to cabinet. I wasn't involved before that.
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NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
You don't know. So maybe that was a phone conversation the first time he was briefed?
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Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
No, because that was a general conversation with WE, and he was very clear—
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NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Actually, it wasn't a general conversation. Mr. Rodriguez, I really think you're downplaying and diminishing Mr. Theis's importance. He's the director of cabinet affairs.
On April 30 he is briefed for an hour on the Canada summer student grant, so he knows all about this. It is a briefing to the director of cabinet because it is going to cabinet.
Then on May 5 he has a 25-minute meeting, and you say, “Well”—I think I heard Ms. Lattanzio say—“people have big ideas.” God, the government loves talking to people with big ideas. The director of cabinet doesn't talk with a bunch of people with big ideas. They're talking about a billion-dollar program that's about to be approved at cabinet. He is briefed by Craig and Marc Kielburger, and they write to him later about the streamlining of the contribution agreement.
We have an issue here. The Prime Minister's director of cabinet affairs, who's about to bring this to cabinet, has a one-hour briefing on the grant and then has a meeting with Craig and Marc Kielburger. What was it that they were trying to streamline? We saw a lot of problems with this program. Why did he tell them that they could streamline this?
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I'm sorry, Mr. Angus, but there's one thing I have to correct here. It is his job to meet with people and stakeholders, and he does that all the time.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Oh, I know. I know. I bet every charity phones and gets a call with Rick Theis for 25 minutes just before it goes to cabinet, because I know he's such a great human being.
But I'm asking about a billion-dollar deal. Don't you think it would have been reasonable that the director of cabinet got a full briefing? Yes, I think so. Don't you think it was smart for the director of cabinet to have a 25-minute conversation to talk about what they needed to do and how they needed to get it out the door? And then, lo and behold, the money starts flowing the day he has a conversation. Don't you think he was just...? Why don't you just say that he was doing his job, because a billion dollars was on the table and it was about to go to cabinet? Rick Theis's job was to defend the Prime Minister.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Wouldn't that be a better framing, so that we at least think this wasn't just an incompetent signing off for a bunch of friends of the Prime Minister?