Evidence of meeting #26 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A video is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Was there due diligence completed on the awarding of this half-a-billion-dollar agreement to an organization that had paid members of the Prime Minister's family half a million dollars? Was there due diligence, Minister?
4 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
The officials did. The officials had those conversations at the meetings. They—
4 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Which department was that?
4 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
—analyzed the departments and then made that recommendation for the government to move along with [Technical difficulty—Editor].
4 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You don't know who conducted that process?
4 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Do I know the name specifically? No, but I'm sure many people worked on that.
March 29th, 2021 / 4 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Minister, who approved the incurring of expenses by the WE organization?
4 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Chair, the minister has undertaken to provide information with respect to who approved the incurring of expenses by the WE organization. I want to ensure that that's recorded in your notes. I'm looking for the return of that undertaking by the minister.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I can tell you that it's not Rick, by the way, Mr. Barrett.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you.
We'll turn to Ms. Shanahan for the next round of questions.
Ms. Shanahan.
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the minister for being here today.
It's very important to make sure we know why we're here today, March 29. I'd like to refer to the motion adopted in the House of Commons:
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(a) regarding the study on questions of conflict of interest and lobbying in relation to pandemic spending by the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics,
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(ii) Rick Theis, the Prime Minister's Director of Policy and Cabinet Affairs, be ordered to appear before the committee on Monday, March 29, 2021, at 2:00 p.m.,
Minister, you are here on account of this motion, correct?
4 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Mr. Chair, we already debated this earlier, and we agreed that Mr. Rodriguez was here to answer all questions related to the WE Charity scandal, and not to engage in hearsay by repeating what he thinks Rick Theis would have answered to any given questions. The minister is not here to speak on behalf of Rick Theis. He is here to answer for himself.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you, Monsieur Fortin. I believe that's a point of debate rather than a point of order. Monsieur Fergus has an opportunity to ask the questions he'd like answered.
We'll turn back to Mr. Fergus.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Mr. Chair, thank you for the opportunity to ask a question.
Perhaps Mr. Fortin doesn't think I can rise to the occasion, but I'm sure I can, as a member of Parliament. I can ask whatever questions I would like the witnesses to answer.
Minister, you are here to answer questions about Mr. Theis, since he was summoned to this meeting. Is that right?
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Yes, that's right.
I'm here because of the motion that was debated and adopted in the House of Commons, a motion that calls on people who are completely outside the purview of Parliament to appear here. Often that means being rushed and pushed around. You can see the tone of today's meeting. It's fine for me, I'm used to it, I've been around for a while. However, it is unacceptable for employees to be treated this way.
That's why we decided to apply the principle of ministerial responsibility, as the Conservative government has done in the past.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Indeed, Mr. Poilievre had this to say in 2010 regarding the principle of ministerial responsibility:
Prime Ministers typically do not testify before committees—that matter is not in dispute. Therefore the Prime Minister does send a designate to represent him. In this case we have Minister Baird.
That was on Tuesday, May 25, 2010. He also said the following that day:
However, ministers are accountable and answerable to Parliament for government policies, decisions, and operations. Ministerial staff are ultimately accountable through their minister.
Do you agree with Mr. Poilievre's statement and this long-standing parliamentary principle?
