Evidence of meeting #26 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Mr. Poilievre, your time is up.
Mr. Rodriguez, we'll give you an opportunity to answer that question, and then we're going to turn to Mr. Dong for five minutes.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Again, Mr. Chair, Mr. Poilievre is suggesting that someone is suggesting something. I could be suggesting that Mr. Poilievre is suggesting that somebody is suggesting...and we go on and on and on.
We need facts, and we don't get this from what—
Conservative
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
I've been listening carefully on the question and answer...and I must say that there's not much new information coming forward. The fact of the matter is that we've been at this study going back to last year.
Viewers should also understand that there's a parallel investigation taking place right now by the Ethics Commissioner, who, by the way, in my opinion, has the most appropriate authority in looking into it. I look forward to his findings and his recommendations.
I was told in the beginning of joining my colleagues in Ottawa that committee work is non-partisan in nature, but more and more what I've been seeing is that it's similar to what's taking place in the House of Commons during debates and question period. It has really, I would say, threatened the work and the outcome of this committee.
I echo what Mr. Angus said earlier, that we have a very important study that is being stalled, quite honestly, by the Conservatives.
We all knew what the schedule of the committee was going to be. We have the Pornhub study. We are also anticipating Bill C-11 coming forward, which was mentioned earlier. Also, there is the new information that we may be able to get through our conversation or correspondence with Mr. Li. To me, that's the most productive part. That's the contributing part to the study that we're talking about today.
I don't know why the Conservatives are so addicted...or believe so much that they are going to gain their positive political objectives through this process of endless questioning. I haven't heard anything new that I haven't heard previously.
With that, since we have the minister here on behalf of the government, I want to clarify something.
First of all, Mr. Shugart testified that no one in the public service raised any red flags about WE Charity's financial well-being and resources before the CSSG proposal went to cabinet on May 22.
Did Mr. Theis see or hear about any red flags being raised about WE Charity's finances and resources? I think it was talked about previously, but the minister didn't get a proper chance to respond to that.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
As I was trying to answer, Mr. Shugart mentioned very clearly that there had been no rad flags raised. If I may go back to your initial comments, I agree that there's nothing new here. I think that we're trying to create stuff or maybe invent stuff. I don't know what it is. The Prime Minister testified in committee, as did the Clerk many times, as well as ministers. There's nothing new coming out of this. I think the committee does extremely important work, especially in these times of COVID. I think we should concentrate on that more than anything else.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
I couldn't agree more. I think we owe the witnesses we heard during the Pornhub study a report. That report should come in a timely fashion.
In Mr. Shugart's testimony to the committee, the Clerk of the Privy Council said that given the importance of the issue to the pandemic response and the scale of the contribution, he did not see how the PM and the finance minister could not have been involved in the CSSG policy development and approval.
Can you comment on that?
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
From my understanding, it was a major financial decision with lots of implications, a huge program involving important amounts of money. That's what I understood from what Mr. Shugart said.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
In your experience, is it common for unsolicited programs, ideas or proposals to be sent to the government, and is there anything improper in government considering and even acting on those kind of proposals?
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
No, it's not uncommon. Actually, it happens all the time, especially in the period of COVID, when you have to be creative, when you have to think outside of the box, when you have to create new programs, when you have to do things very quickly to help Canadians. That's what we did. Sometimes we get comments and suggestions, such as from you guys, from MPs, from organizations, from groups, from unions, from businesses. It happens all the time, but it has to follow a due process.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you.
Your time is up, Mr. Dong.
I know that some members have been asking for a short break before we begin the third round. We will suspend the meeting for approximately four minutes.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
I'll call this meeting back to order.
We'll turn to Mr. Barrett to start the third round of questions.
Go ahead, please, Mr. Barrett, for five minutes.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Minister, what would have been the consequence of Mr. Theis obeying the House order? Would he have been fired?
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I'm asking because he was instructed not to appear, presumably by you, against an order by Canada's Parliament.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I explained to you very clearly—and you heard me in the House—about ministerial responsibility. It's based on that, which Mr. Poilievre was defending very hard in 2010. That's why I'm here.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Who did Mr. Theis refer WE to at ESDC?
Liberal
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Did Mr. Theis speak to anyone at the WE organization before or after May 5, 2020?
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
How much in expenses was WE told, on May 5, that it could incur ?
Liberal
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
How much in expenses was the WE organization told it could incur on May 5?
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I don't know. I think it was zero, but I'm sure those questions were asked in other committees.
