Information & Ethics Committee on March 29th, 2021

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Well, so much for that, Mr. Chair. I was actually trying to suggest to my colleagues that maybe we could stay focused and work together to get something done here, because we do have the Pornhub study, which is very serious, and I would like to see ministers come for that.

If we are going to have these continual interruptions and interference and go to the wall over stuff like that, at this point I'm ready to get the report done. That's my feeling.

I thank you for coming, Mr. Rodriguez. You may not like the report, and the government may not like the report on Pornhub. They may, but it is our job to get it done, and regardless of the blocking and interference I've experienced over the last year at this committee, with the endless filibusters and interruptions, I will continue to do my job. That's what I do as a parliamentarian.

Thank you very much for coming.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you.

Can I say something?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Go ahead.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Angus. I have to say that I always appreciated working with you. You have asked me tough questions; that's your job, and it's fine. My job is to try to answer.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Mr. Poilievre, we'll turn to you now for the next round of questions.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Did Mr. Theis brief the Prime Minister on the Canada student service grant to WE, yes or no?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Did he tell the Prime Minister that the employment and social development department had perused evidence showing that WE could actually deliver the program, yes or no?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes.

Do you mean the recommendation from the public service—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

No, not the recommendation. I mean evidence that we could deliver the program.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

That's funny, because I have in my hands another document that you have just contradicted. It's from Treasury Board. It says, “Finally, Treasury Board Secretariat notes that employment and social development has not provided evidence to suggest that WE Charities possess the capacity to undertake this work, especially under accelerated timelines.”

Did Mr. Theis lie to you and say that he briefed the Prime Minister that there was such evidence?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

After they made the briefing, the due diligence, is when the information was transmitted, Mr. Chair.

I'm not sure what Mr. Poilievre is trying to do here.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Well, you claim, and I'm asking you—

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

He's accusing Mr. Theis of doing something bad.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

You claim that Mr. Theis told you that the department gave evidence that WE could deliver the program, and I have here, from your government's own Treasury Board Secretariat, a report that was filed on the same day, saying that there was no evidence to suggest that WE could even deliver this program.

Did Mr. Theis tell you that, yes or no?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Mr. Poilievre, the document was removed from cabinet for due diligence, and the Prime Minister had many questions. They were answered by the public servants, and the public servants, as you know, said that it was the only way to do it. That's it.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

But I have the public servants saying here that they couldn't, that WE actually couldn't, or that there was no evidence that WE could deliver it. The documents say exactly the opposite of what you are testifying.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Mr. Poilievre, the documents are a little bit small for me to be able to read on the screen. Sorry.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Right. Maybe you should have read them before you got here. The Boy Scouts' rule: be prepared.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I have 5,000 pages that we gave you, Pierre, 5,000 pages, my friend.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Come prepared, my friend. If you're the minister responsible, own up and know what you're talking about.

Did any public servants raise concerns about the integrity of the program?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

No.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Well, I have here a document—

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

But you—