Information & Ethics Committee on Feb. 8th, 2024

[Eric Ferron]

The tools we're discussing here today actually help us to ensure that we are thorough but at the same time very precise in what we get out of these computers, telephones or any electronic devices. It allows us to be more surgical, to seek out only what is relevant to the investigation.

When we have our judicial orders, there are terms of references in the actual order that explain what we can get access to, so those are other ways of limiting what we would get our hands on.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

It's a similar question for the CRTC. I think you demonstrated how someone would access the phone by entering though the wire, or the USB or what have you, to extract. Is there an ability to extract information remotely?

[Steven Harroun]

No. This tool does not work remotely. We actually have to connect to the device.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

You would have to get the warrant, get the approval to obtain the device and then go in without any remote access, connect to the device and extract.

[Steven Harroun]

Absolutely. Through our search warrant it identifies what we're looking for and how we will obtain that information using these types of digital forensic tools. That search warrant is explained to the individual when we're executing the search warrant, so they are well aware of what's going to happen. They willingly, or at least by court order, offer us up that device. Even more importantly, often they're required to give us the password. If we don't have the password to that device, we cannot use this tool.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Bains.

Thank you, Mr. Harroun.

Mr. Villemure, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to move the following motion, which has been sent to the clerk. It's been translated and sent to everyone. It reads as follows:

That, in accordance with Standing Order 108(3)(h), the Committee undertakes a study of misinformation and disinformation and their impact on the work of parliamentarians, that the Committee devotes the next three available meetings to this study; that the Committee invites experts in the field of misinformation and disinformation; and that the Committee reports its observations and recommendations to the House.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

I It was emailed to all the committee members.

I would ask the witnesses to please bear with us for a few seconds while we discuss Mr. Villemure's motion.

Would you like to speak to your motion, Mr. Villemure?

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Yes. Thank you.

Several global think tanks, the most recent being the World Economic Forum, have published alarming information. The latest statistics show that people in general, business people and those working for government departments and organizations, are concerned about disinformation and misinformation.

We've known for some time that they exist. However, it's surprising to learn that the current level of concern is higher than ever and is now comparable to people's anxiety over climate change. It's something rather more subtle, and below the waterline, but it nevertheless has an impact on what parliamentarians think and the decisions they make.

We've now reached a point that requires decisions about matters that affect the population, departments and organizations. In fact, since the arrival of generative artificial intelligence, the concept of truth itself is being challenged, because the true and the false are becoming difficult to distinguish. Under these circumstances, I believe that it's imperative for us to undertake a study of this kind and for us to hear from experts in the field, in order to prepare ourselves to deal with these issues and better serve the public interest.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

I spoke with the clerk and he hadn't received the notice of motion.

That causes us a bit of a problem here. I may have overstepped my boundary by accepting the motion. If members don't want to discuss the motion, then we'll have to take this as a notice of motion to be discussed at perhaps a later date.

Just as Mr. Barrett did before, if we can take this as a verbal notice of motion—I am very sorry for this, and I appreciate your comments—then perhaps we can discuss it at a future meeting.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

That's not a problem, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure. Allow me to apologize once more.

You still have the floor for a minute and a half, if you wish.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Certainly.

Good day once again to the witnesses.

Very briefly, Mr. Harroun, do you feel it would be appropriate to amend the Privacy Act to reflect these new realities?

I'd also like to hear from Mr. Ferron on this.

[Steven Harroun]

If it is deemed that the Privacy Act should be amended for whatever reason, we will comply with those amendments.

[Eric Ferron]

I agree with my colleague.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Do you have any suggestions with respect to amending the act?

[Eric Ferron]

I don't have any comments on this for the committee today.

[Steven Harroun]

I have no suggestions.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

Ms. Idlout, you have the final two and a half minutes. We'll adjourn the meeting after that.

Go ahead, Ms. Idlout.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik.

I will also be asking for responses in written form. Having heard your responses to my Bloc colleague previously, I invite you to read a report that was made by the Department of Justice, which did consultations on the Privacy Act. Between 2020 and 2022, the Department of Justice led engagement efforts with indigenous partners on Privacy Act modernization. This resulted in, among other things, a publication entitled “Privacy Act Modernization: Report on 2022 Engagement with Indigenous Partners”. As of today, in February 2024, a government bill to reform the Privacy Act has not been introduced in the House of Commons.

I have two questions. First, do you think there is an urgent need to reform the Privacy Act, and if so, why? Second, what are the most significant amendments that you would like to see made to the act, based on your reading of the report?

Qujannamiik.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Ms. Idlout.

Ms. Idlout, I just want to clarify that we want the responses to the questions you asked of the earlier panel to be public, just as we do with these ones. Is that correct?

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay. I just needed to clarify that. They'll be going into the digital binder for the committee, but we also want those responses to be made public. Thank you for clarifying that.

That concludes our panel for today.

Mr. McIntyre, Mr. Harroun, Ms. Laurin and Mr. Ferron, thank you for your testimony today.

I do have some information for the committee that I want to discuss just briefly. There are a couple of things I need to bring up.

We're expecting the draft report by February 19 on the social media study that we did.

We have confirmation from the President of the Treasury Board, in relation to this study, that she will be appearing March 21. Based on Mr. Green's request the other day, the unions will be appearing on February 15. We've also invited a guest who Mr. Villemure proposed as well. We're still waiting for confirmation on a couple of those. Then, regarding the 137 letters to the various institutions, the email has been drafted. It will be sent out soon, if it hasn't been sent already. The way the clerk is going to gather that information is in a table. It will be distributed to members of the committee as well.

As it stands right now, next Tuesday we'll continue with the next tranche of departmental officials who are to appear. Then, as I said earlier, the unions will be on the 15th. On the 27th, just to remind members of the committee, we have the RCMP commissioner and a staff sergeant, I believe, coming in to speak on SNC-Lavalin.

Without any further business, this meeting is adjourned. Thank you, everyone.