Evidence of meeting #105 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:10 p.m.
Commr Michael Duheme
We did apply to open it through an order in council to have additional information and it was refused.
February 27th, 2024 / 1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
It was refused by PCO.
Paragraph 24 of the investigation report states, “However, should additional evidence be uncovered corroborating a criminal intent to obstruct justice, it would be recommended that the occurrence be reopened for further investigation.”
I have a really tough time understanding, in the face of the obstruction that the RCMP was facing by the Prime Minister and the consequent lack of evidence to further pursue getting to the heart of the issue—that being obstruction—why the RCMP didn't see fit to even pick up the phone and contact the Prime Minister and schedule an interview with him.
1:10 p.m.
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
I would have to simply say, Mr. Chair, that in this situation, of course, again, we have to operate within the parameters of what we have. It's not for me to—
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
There's nothing within the parameters that you had that would have precluded you from picking up the phone to contact the Prime Minister.
1:10 p.m.
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
Again, we have to assess if a criminal offence has taken place.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'll just recap what we've heard today: You investigated, and you did not find any criminality or any wrongdoing. Is that correct?
1:10 p.m.
Commr Michael Duheme
Based on the information that was given to us, that's correct, Mr. Chair.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
We've talked about cabinet confidences and how there should be parameters around those cabinet confidences in balancing out transparency.
1:10 p.m.
Commr Michael Duheme
With regard to that, Mr. Chair, I'll leave it up to this table to determine what is appropriate.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Absolutely.
We also confirmed that you have acted independently, not on the behest of any political party or any organization, in all of the work that you do.
1:10 p.m.
Commr Michael Duheme
As I said today, Mr. Chair, we did not once brief anyone on this file at the political level.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you.
I just want to clarify something that my colleague Mr. Cooper said. He said that the PCO is the Prime Minister's personal department. Is that true?
1:15 p.m.
Commr Michael Duheme
That's an opinion. I'll keep my opinion to myself.
1:15 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you.
I really appreciate the time that you've taken.
I'm going to pass it on to Mr. Housefather.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Thank you.
I just have a couple of brief questions.
Thank you both for coming in.
Do you always interview the targets of your investigation, or do you wait until there's a reason for that based on the analysis that you've done?
1:15 p.m.
Commr Michael Duheme
Before you sit down with someone, obviously there's an analysis that's been done of everything that you've collected on that person as to what they have seen, whether they're involved and whatnot. Our investigators have a game plan when they go in and sit down with someone—if there's a need to sit down with someone.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Okay.
So, when you started this investigation, there was no predetermined decision that you would or would not sit down with the Prime Minister or anybody else. Is that correct?
1:15 p.m.
Commr Michael Duheme
What I would say to that, Mr. Chair, is that we followed the evidence.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
That's correct. However, there seems to be an attempt to make this an investigation about the Prime Minister. This is all about the Prime Minister.
You were investigating a factual situation that involved a myriad of different instances and different people, and you came to the conclusion about whom you wanted to interview or not internally, without political pressure. Is that correct?
1:15 p.m.
Commr Michael Duheme
That's correct.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
