Information & Ethics Committee on May 28th, 2024

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

The Speaker of the House, Chair, has also, in practice, limited the length of time for questions of privilege raised in the chamber. Having done that, the scope for members offering their points has to be very tight. The Speaker, the Deputy Speaker and the Assistant Deputy Speaker have sat members down when they've turned it into a soapbox.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I got that point, Mr. Barrett.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I'll tighten it up, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Bains, I was going to make the point that your question of privilege needs to relate to the issue of your feeling like your privilege has been breached.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I am giving a comparison here.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

That's fine, but in relation to what you're talking about, it has to be germane to that.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

What I'm not looking for in making my ruling on whether I think your privilege has been breached is to relitigate the issues that have been before this committee in the past.

I will remind you, sir, that Mr. Chiu's testimony is a matter of privilege. He's covered by parliamentary privilege in this room. I'm going to ask you to keep it succinct as it relates to your feeling like your privilege has been breached, not to relitigate or debate what's happened either in the past or in this committee with witnesses.

Please go ahead, sir. If you can be succinct and wrap it up, I would appreciate that.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will. I'm almost there.

As I indicated, I was just showing a comparison of some of the points that have been raised here and are chosen to be viewed differently if it's one side of the equation here versus the other. I just was raising some of those issues as a comparison to really shed light on what takes place here and how I am feeling. I just feel that neither Mr. Brock nor any of the other CPC MPs seem to treat these claims with certainty—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

Again, with respect to your ruling, Chair, requesting that the member be succinct and speak exactly to how his privileges were breached, what he's offering is opinion on perceptions of members of another party about issues in the news. I fail to see how what I think about something or how I treat something—for example, foreign interference—has anything to do with his claims that another member of this committee...or that his privileges were breached. If he has a specific allegation with respect to that—

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Brock made accusations against me. I'm speaking to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I'm not asking for cross discussion here, please.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

If the member—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Wrap it up.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

—has something specific that relates to his privilege being breached, he should cite the event and cite the evidence, and then the chair needs to make a ruling.

Chair, this is gratuitous at best.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Bains, Mr. Barrett does bring up a good point.

We are all experienced members of Parliament. We have seen questions of privilege being raised in the House of Commons. In fact, I have raised several questions of privilege in my experience as a House leader. Most of those, many of those, all of those questions of privilege are related to how the privileges of members have been breached. There are very specific references not just to the historical context but also, under the green book, to how those privileges have been breached. Never have I stood in the House on a question of privilege and litigated what's gone on at this committee or what's been the subject of news sources outside of this committee.

I am going to ask you to conclude.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I will conclude.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Bains.

Mr. Bains has concluded his discussion.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

No. I will give you a conclusion here.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I'm sorry. That's my misunderstanding.

I'm going to ask you to wrap it up really quickly. If there's another intervention by me, then—

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I believe I've already made several references to the allegations made by Mr. Brock.

To conclude, Mr. Brock's motion is clearly designed as a personal threat. It's intended to inflict reputational damage, intimidate me using false or unverifiable information, and impede me in my role as a member of the House of Commons.

Making statements against members without evidence or making false allegations is a matter of serious concern for all members, and I look forward to your ruling, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you for raising that question of privilege, Mr. Bains. The chair does take it seriously.

I see your hand, Mr. Kurek. Do you have anything to add in relation to this question of privilege?

I'm going to remind members that I'm not interested in debate.

On a point of order, go ahead, Mr. Kurek.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I'm sorry, Chair. Before entering into a discussion, I would ask for clarity from you on the framework of privilege discussions at committee. If you need to take time to discuss it with the clerk, I respect that, absolutely.

It's on a point of order, so that we can understand what the framework for a discussion continuing would or would not look like and whether we would expect a ruling from you and whether or not there is a motion forthcoming.

I note that Mr. Bains has given up the floor without having moved a motion. I believe I'm next on the speaking list.

I would just ask for clarity, Chair, on a point of order, before we proceed with the question.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I appreciate your bringing that up, Mr. Kurek.

I have heard the information that's been provided by Mr. Bains. I will advise the committee that the chair takes very seriously these issues of questions of privilege.

Similarly to what the Speaker of the House has done, I will take the information. I am going to go back and discuss this with the clerk and come back with a later ruling. That's what I'm prepared to do at this point.

Thank you for raising that, Mr. Bains.