Evidence of meeting #133 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gray.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
These companies are not based in Canada.
Are you seeing any new trends in this kind of disinformation when it comes to ChatGPT or artificial intelligence? What are you seeing there?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
I'm sorry, Ms. Shanahan, but the witness would have to give a very brief answer.
Chairperson, National Security Centre of Excellence
Yes.
I think people who do not use those services will be left behind. They are going to need to be used, even in the schools. It will be standard.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you.
Mr. Kushwaha and Mr. McAndrews, I want to thank you for appearing before the committee today. You have provided us with some great information. As chair and on behalf of the committee, I really appreciate the time you've taken with us today.
I'm going to dismiss the witnesses. We do have a little bit of business that we need to discuss.
Earlier today, every member of the committee was sent correspondence that we received from X. As I mentioned to the committee on Tuesday, the plan is to have social media companies come here after the Thanksgiving break. The request from X is to appear in camera. Typically, it hasn't been the process of this committee to have witnesses appear in camera. They stated their reasons. The challenge I have is that I need to know what the committee thinks of this and what it wants. The decision has to be the committee's.
I'll go to you first, Ms. Khalid, and then to Mr. Green.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
As I have said many times, this report, this study, is very important. It would be a massive shame for a company like X, which has all of the privileges of controlling public discourse, I would say, to not be able to come before us and be on the record.
I would like for their testimony to be part of the record, and I think that Canadians need to hear them and what they have to say on the record, in public, because they are accountable at the end of the day.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you for that.
That being said, if they come before the committee—and we are going to extend another invitation to them, if it is the will of the committee publicly—they can respond in whatever manner they want. My view is that if they feel that information is too sensitive, then they can just say it's too sensitive. Again, I agree with you. They are under the same privileges and protections that we are as members of Parliament.
We have Mr. Green and then Mrs. Romanado.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I find it startling, quite frankly, Mr. Chair, that this is their opening salvo, that in a public forum a platform that claims to be the digital public square is coming, right off the bat, and asking to be in camera. Elon Musk is not special. X is not special. Everybody comes before this committee, and they testify in public.
I would disagree. While it is true that they can say whatever they want, committees have the power to send for people, evidence and documents. If they come to this committee and try to obstruct it in any way, they will be, in my opinion, acting in contempt of this committee. Therefore, we demand and expect fulsome answers and candour.
I don't care what's happening in the United States of America, quite frankly. I want the social media platforms here. I want it in public, and it must be on the record.
Conservative
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I just have a brief repetition of one point Mr. Green made, and it is that it can be offered by any witness that they're not comfortable sharing a piece of information, but, at the end of the day, the information that we ask for is up to us. We've been well served at this committee with your direction to witnesses to advise them of their obligation to provide information.
Look, we meet with witnesses in public. There's no precedent elsewhere and no kid-glove treatment elsewhere for platforms. They frankly get a much better experience and a much softer ride in front of parliamentary committees than they do at congressional hearings.
We can give them a kid-glove response, but you could let them know that we look forward to hearing from them in public. They can attend by invitation or attend under summons, but it will be in public either way.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Okay. There are two forms of communication. There's verbal, with witnesses appearing in front of us, and there's written as well, which is an option available to them. We've afforded that option to other witnesses.
Mr. Villemure.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
When you call yourself social media, operating in society means you cannot avoid the obligation to be accountable, so they have to come here and testify in public.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Okay. My sense is that it is a unanimous decision of the committee that we extend the invitation for them to appear in public.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
I wonder how that's going to impact our Twitter analytics going forward.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
I appreciate dealing with that quickly.
Look, we've been here for three weeks. We've had an interesting session. Thanksgiving is coming up....
It's been four weeks—yes. I lost count.
I want to wish everybody a happy Thanksgiving. Spend some time with your families.
Mr. Green, when you get back, make sure you take that runner out for a celebratory dinner and Ms. Khalid will pay for it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Just have a great Thanksgiving break off, and we'll see you all when we get back.
The meeting is adjourned. Thank you.