Evidence of meeting #134 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was political.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
In terms of a risk assessment in national security, how high would you put misinformation and disinformation as a threat to free and fair elections when it comes to western democracies?
Professor and William T. Evjue Distinguished Chair for the Wisconsin Idea, University of Wisconsin-Madison, As an Individual
I'd put them much higher than they used to be, at least in the United States context. Mis- and disinformation on social media platforms have been tied to encouraging the January 6 atrocities at the United States Capitol. That's an example of how mis- and disinformation about the results of an election can foment political violence.
There are also a high number of mis- and disinformation behaviours that occur around elections, such as trying to target particular populations, telling them the wrong day for an election or telling them rules about what they have to do when they vote that aren't accurate, and those sorts of things. Those are all dangers to free and fair elections.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
That concludes our first round. We are going to have two five-minute rounds and a two-and-a-half-minute round. That will conclude our first panel. We want to try to keep it on time here.
I'm going back to Mr. Caputo for five minutes. Go ahead, sir.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Suelzle, before I begin, this idea of expertise is an interesting one, because sometimes we have.... People can chuckle, but sometimes we have a—
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Okay. I apologize. I thought it was a chuckle to my question.
People can have different views on expertise, but in my view, 17 years of real-world expertise or real-world knowledge is highly beneficial to this committee, so I thank you for being here.
Sir, do you fear any repercussions for what you are saying to this committee here?
Conservative
Correctional Officer, Federal, As an Individual
Yes, I anticipate some kind of punitive response to this.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Would you be prepared to let this committee know if there is any sort of response or follow-up as a result of your testimony here today, given that you were invited by parliamentarians and were simply answering questions by parliamentarians truthfully?
Correctional Officer, Federal, As an Individual
I have no concern with doing that.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
I'm going to ask you about gangs in jail, how that is communicated to the public and parliamentarians by the CSC, and what's really happening.
Do you have any comment on gangs in jail, how that's being communicated and what's really going on?
Correctional Officer, Federal, As an Individual
The CSC prides themselves in having successfully eliminated gangs from Canadian prisons a number of years ago. I believe it was 2014 or 2015. That is a celebrated accomplishment amongst the brass of the CSC, which was accomplished by changing the name “gangs” to “security threat groups”.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
What does that mean, "security threat groups"? Was it simply just a change in the name and, therefore, we say that no gangs exist? Do I have that right?
Correctional Officer, Federal, As an Individual
Yes. It was a name change that, out of one side of the mouth, eliminated gangs and, on the other hand, created a very new problem with a very newly named group.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
If somebody were to testify before Parliament and say that gangs are not an issue, but we didn't know that and would have to say that say that "security threat groups" are, that would certainly be misleading in my view.
I want you to talk about this as well. We are told that in Corrections there's safe, secure, humane control, and people are transferred—when I say "transferred", their security status is transferred down from maximum to medium, or from medium to minimum—in accordance with their risk to public safety and things like that.
Do you have any comment on that, sir?
Correctional Officer, Federal, As an Individual
It's a very hot issue amongst correctional officers about what we perceive and believe is the inaccurate security classification of inmates being inappropriately downgraded or de-escalated down through security levels outside of where that inmate is fit to be operating in.
When we have a maximum security inmate positioned into a medium or minimum security environment, of course that produces all kinds of threats to us and to the public.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Is this type of thing routinely communicated to parliamentarians and the public?
Correctional Officer, Federal, As an Individual
It's very rarely communicated to anyone internally. I would be shocked if it were communicated externally at all. It's usually done through the form of what's called "overrides".
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
An override is when a manager essentially says, “I disagree with what the computer has spit out, and I'm going to change that on my own.”
That's a kind of crude way of putting it, but is that accurate?
Conservative