Evidence of meeting #135 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was content.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Global Head of Policy Development, TikTok
Yes, I believe we have several other states as well listed on the transparency report.
Global Head of Policy Development, TikTok
It is, yes. We've identified a few networks totalling over 1,000 accounts that we've taken down.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you very much.
You have independent specialists working to verify these things.
Who are they, briefly?
Global Head of Policy Development, TikTok
We attract a wide range of subject matter experts who have come from government, from academia, from civil society, and they are working on various different teams that work on developing both the policies and the detection and investigation side.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you very much.
Ms. Hundley, I'm going to ask you a big question.
Could you tell us what cognitive warfare is?
Global Threat Intelligence Lead, Meta Platforms Inc.
Of course. I'm happy to.
I think that cognitive warfare or influence operations—information operations, whatever you want to call it—is a practice that dates back a long time, way before the advent of social media. It is used by governments against both their own domestic audiences and what they consider to be their foreign adversaries. There's a great diversity in the field of the types of actors who might be waging this type of activity, from political parties to governments to for-hire firms, as I mentioned earlier. That's what I guess I would start with.
If there are some more specific questions that you would like me to touch on, I'd be happy to answer those.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
All right. I'll take you at your word.
Cognitive warfare has always existed, that's a fact. But we're seeing an increase. Do you see this increase? If so, what is it and why is it more dangerous?
Global Threat Intelligence Lead, Meta Platforms Inc.
I'm happy to answer that.
I think that our data would probably not necessarily confirm that it is just steadily increasing. I think that there have been fluctuations over years on how many influence operations we have found on Meta platforms, but in general, one thing we have seen is that there is a greater diversification of the actors that are in this field.
Particularly, one of the most concerning trends from our standpoint is the rise of the disinformation from for-hire firms, which essentially democratizes the tactics of foreign influence operations and also makes it much more difficult to attribute the activity to the actual benefactors who have purchased these services.
Bloc
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Villemure.
Mr. Green, for six minutes, go ahead, please.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you.
I do have to go back to Mr. Fernández.
Mr. Fernández, are you familiar with the Center for Countering Digital Hate?
Head of Government Affairs, United States of America and Canada, X Corporation
Yes.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Mr. Fernández, just for the record again, what's your role with X?
Head of Government Affairs, United States of America and Canada, X Corporation
I'm a director; I head our government affairs and public policy in the United States and Canada.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Then this would be directly in your purview. Are you aware of the report entitled “Social Media's Role in the UK Riots, Policy Responses and Solutions”?
Head of Government Affairs, United States of America and Canada, X Corporation
No, I am not.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'll give you some background.
On July 29, 2024, there was a mass stabbing at a children's dance class in Southport in the United Kingdom, and three children died.
Immediately following news of the attack, false information about the attacker's identity spread on social media, alongside calls for action and violence. The next day hundreds of people gathered outside a Southport mosque and hurled petrol bombs, bricks and anti-Muslim abuse, motivated by false information spread online naming the attacker—and I won't even rename it, because I don't want to boost it anymore—and was both a Muslim and an asylum seeker.
Acts of violence and public disorder, much of it featuring anti-Muslim and anti-migrant sentiment, soon spread around the country. Posts containing the fake name were promoted by users using platform algorithms and recommended features. The Institute for Strategic Dialogue found that X featured the false name in its “trending in the U.K.” promotions, suggesting it to users in the “what's happening” sidebar.
Far-right figures with millions of followers capitalized on false claims that the attacker was an asylum seeker, spreading the falsehood further into the massive bases of followers.
One platform stood out. It was yours. It was X, and the owner, whom we identified already, Mr. Elon Musk, shared false information about the situation to his 195 million followers and made a show of attacking the U.K.'s government response to the outbreak of violence. Rather than ensuring risk and illegal content were mitigated on his platform, Musk recklessly promoted the notion of an impending civil war in the U.K., Mr. Fernández, and yet your company, X, refuses to sign on to a declaration on the practice of disinformation.
What do you have to say about that, Mr. Fernández?
Head of Government Affairs, United States of America and Canada, X Corporation
About what in particular, sir?
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I mean the fact that your platform was responsible for misinformation about the false name of a person who was identified as Muslim and an asylum seeker, which reached potentially 1.7 billion people.
Mr. Fernández, out of all of the companies here, X is the only one that refused to sign on to a code of practice on disinformation. Your owner, who is currently on the campaign trail with Donald Trump in a hyperpartisan role for X, contrary to your testimony at this committee, is responsible for this.
What do you have to say about that to the people who were targeted in the U.K., sir?
Head of Government Affairs, United States of America and Canada, X Corporation
We have clear policies on hate, abuse and harassment. In the first half of this year, we suspended over 1.1 million accounts under these policies, removed over 2.2 million posts and actioned an additional 5.3 million posts under hate, abuse and harassment. We do take it seriously. We do act on it.
I'm happy to follow up more on—
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
On the research relating particularly to the U.K. riots.... When I say “riots”, I need you to go back and look at this. Look at the work your company is involved in on the streets, creating chaos and violence by far-right extremists.
The initial report's analysis “determined that X was a significant platform in the unrest.” It reads:
...the X platform as accounting for roughly 50% of all public referrals of online content—double the proportion of the next largest platform. CCDH quantified the reach that far-right influencers spreading hate and false information garnered on X in the aftermath of the attack, facilitated by the platform’s blue-tick promotion feature and enabled by the proprietor's decision to re-instate previously banned accounts.
In this report, sir, it was also discovered that X was “profiting from the disorder by placing advertisements alongside hate and lies”. What do you have to say about that, sir?
Head of Government Affairs, United States of America and Canada, X Corporation
Again, I'm happy to follow up with my U.K. colleagues, and we'll talk to you more about our response in that scenario.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Is it an isolated incident, or do you also make a practice of profiting from online hate?
Head of Government Affairs, United States of America and Canada, X Corporation
No, sir.