Evidence of meeting #30 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
I'm very sorry. If it's okay, I just want to clarify with respect to our routine motions on subsequent rounds, whether we are doing five minutes per member. I ask because I know that our routine motions listed times that are a little bit different. I just need some clarification.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Pat Kelly
Yes, I am deviating from that. That was what I had said. I was canvassing the room if we wanted to end the meeting after the third round, and then I asked who maybe wanted to speak. There were a number of people who did. I made a ruling to let each party have a five-minute round. That was my ruling, and I'm going to give Mr. Villemure five minutes and Mr. Green five minutes, and I might have a question from the chair when we're done.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm going to ask you the same question my fellow member asked you.
Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner, do you think spyware was used to surveil Canadians in general?
I'm not asking for documented evidence. I'm simply asking whether you think it's happened.
12:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
We know that spyware was used because the RCMP confirmed it. What we want to see is the privacy impact assessment for the program.
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Policy and Promotion Sector, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Whether that happened, I'm not aware.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
All right.
I was talking about what goes on beyond government. In general, do you think spyware is being used to surveil Canadians?
12:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I will repeat what I said about the information we received about what took place. Other witnesses will be able to share their experiences.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Very well.
When you carry out a PIA and you identify gaps—say, in one of Apple's or Samsung's systems—do you flag them to the phone manufacturers, to ensure users' privacy is protected?
12:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Mr. Smolynec may be able to say more about that.
I do think we would share our findings with them to ensure that privacy is protected.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
That means your staff would be in contact with the phone manufacturers to ensure that harmful gaps were plugged.
Is that right?
12:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
We have consultation mechanisms for the government and for the business community. Organizations are able to reach out to us about potential initiatives. We conduct assessments on a case-by-case basis, so we can provide feedback and advice on privacy considerations.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
If you identify a gap, do you proactively contact manufacturers like Apple to ensure the gap is plugged?
12:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
If we identify a gap and we weren't contacted, it is possible to file a complaint in some cases or to proactively initiate discussions with the organization in others.
Mr. Smolynec may have more to say on that.
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Policy and Promotion Sector, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
That is a possibility.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
12:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
No, we wouldn't do nothing.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you very much.
This year, Canada is chairing the Freedom Online Coalition, which promotes best practices.
Do you think it would be appropriate to examine the use of spyware?
Would it be a good idea for Canada to propose that to other countries so that, together, we can come up with best practices?
12:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
This issue has captured the public's attention, especially thanks to this study. The issue is under the media spotlight. Canadians are concerned about anything having to do with their digital tools.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
The issue is on people's radar thanks to articles that appeared in La Presse and on news site Politico. Did you become concerned when you read those reports?
All of this is quite shocking when you consider your earlier point about the public interest, privacy as a fundamental right and Canadians' trust.
If you put yourself in the average person's shoes, does the information in those articles worry you?
August 8th, 2022 / 12:45 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
A stronger regime is needed when it comes to the requirement to prepare PIAs. That is the basis for my recommendation. After reading the articles, I realize how important it is to be able to tell Canadians that privacy impact assessments are being carried out and that privacy authorities will be consulted. I think that would reassure Canadians.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
I want to follow up on something we talked about earlier.
We all know that technology moves faster than legislation, which tends to play catch‑up, so do you think a moratorium on the use of these tools is warranted?
12:45 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I'm going to wait until I've seen the presentation on the tools in question before I give an opinion on that.