Information & Ethics Committee on Aug. 8th, 2022

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Do you not agree that those agencies also have a duty of candour to the House of Commons and at committee?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Without question, Mr. Green. I'm not—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay, I want to reference for you, now that we have you here before us, the fact that in our previous studies, in fact, we had members of the RCMP refusing to even name what was already publicly available, the person who is responsible for procuring Clearview technology. We have a culture that has been reflected in the courts as being cavalier, which came through in a judicial decision commenting on both CSIS and the RCMP.

What are you doing as the minister responsible to ensure that the duty of candour results in our being presented with full, frank and completely transparent accounting at this committee and the House of Commons?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

In short, I hold all branches within my portfolio accountable for those values you just stated, making sure that the mechanisms are designed and are delivering the transparency that is required to build trust and confidence. It is an ongoing exercise that constantly requires reflection, especially as we—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Let me ask you this last question. We talked about the Privacy Act. We talked about having privacy rights embedded in the preamble. We have now determined that the preamble is actually not legally binding. Would you support putting privacy rights within the actual legal framework of the upcoming Privacy Act?

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Mr. Green has used all of his time without leaving time for an answer. Maybe he can answer—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'll give him time to reflect on that and then reflect back in my next round.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Minister, you can give us a quick yes or no to that if you'd like to. I'll let you. Otherwise, we're going to go to Mr. Williams.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You can go.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

The short answer, Mr. Chair, is that there are charter and privacy protections already built in, but I invite future recommendations as this committee may submit.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

With that, I'll go to Mr. Williams.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being with us today.

This morning we had Canada's Privacy Commissioner in the room, who spoke about maintaining trust in our public institutions.

Do you believe in maintaining trust in our public institutions?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Absolutely.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

You stated in your opening statements that this technology that you know of has been implemented since 2017. Is that correct?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

That's what I had been advised.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Minister, is it acceptable to you that it's been five years that the RCMP has not submitted a privacy impact assessment and that they are just completing one now? The Privacy Commissioner thought that it would be provided at the end of August. Is it acceptable that it's been five years since they've had that completed?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

As I have said previously, I think it is unfortunate that the Privacy Commissioner was just recently engaged, but I also want to clarify to you and to members of the committee that privacy protections are afforded and complied with in the context of the use of this technology when officers apply for judicial authorizations. That's one of the important—

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Minister, my question was: Do you find it acceptable that it's been five years? Again, based on the fact that the commissioner this morning stated that he only learned of this in June—and we think June is probably too long—is five years too long?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I want to make it abundantly clear to you that when these techniques are used, including ODIT, there has to be a balancing—

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Minister, yes or no is absolutely acceptable. Yes or no?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I've already said that there is privacy protection built into each and every instance when these techniques are used.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Sir, if you're not going to answer my questions, I don't know why we're asking them.

It's very simple. If we have a privacy commissioner asking for very basic instances from our institutions—and you've clearly stated that we want to have trust in our institutions—would it not be acceptable that we ensure, as much as we can in the government, that we have the very basics concluded by those institutions?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Of course. That's why I've said that—

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Thank you, sir, very much.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

—we are engaged with the RCMP—I'm sorry, with the Privacy Commissioner.