Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 30th, 2022

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Has the motion been circulated?

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

It has not. I just read it into the record for the first time. I'd be happy to speak to it, if it's in order.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

We have just a few minutes left for this business. We do have committee business that we need to get to.

The motion's on the floor. I'll allow you to speak to the motion.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank the witness, because some of the technical details that were asked in the process of trying to get to the bottom of....

Specifically, Mr. Chair, I would note just the details of the services that—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Go ahead, Mr. Barrett.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Chair, would there be consensus to excuse the witness?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Yes, that's fine. I was just getting to that. We will do that before we discuss the motion.

The other thing I would keep in mind on the motion is the fact that we can't compel a private business to submit something in both official languages, but we can have it translated. That's one thing to keep in mind.

Mr. Khabra, I really want to thank you for being here today, sir. I know it was said a couple of times that your first time in front of a parliamentary committee can be intimidating, but I want you to be assured that you accorded yourself very well today, sir. I want to thank you for that, and on behalf of Canadians, thank you for being here today.

We'll dismiss the witness.

I'm going to return to Mr. Kurek. Let's see if we can get through this quickly.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I appreciate the discussion that we've had today. The reason I moved the motion that I did.... I think the testimony was very helpful. Certainly it helped me understand the specific privacy implications that we're addressing here.

Conservatives and the media have been asking questions about ArriveCAN when it comes to the scope of this committee's study and the privacy implications of that, and then we were asking the other day about some lobbying implications, which are, of course, within the scope of this committee as well.

I moved the motion because the witness talked about his team and the level that they go to to ensure that their clients—in this case, Canada Border Services—are given a high-quality product. However, as the witness articulated, they don't keep those evaluations and whatnot. They're hired to conduct a service, and when that service is fulfilled, that documentation is left to ensure that they're fulfilling the obligations related to privacy and security on their company's end of things. I think the focus needs to move—I would suggest, rightly—to the CBSA.

I think it's quite reasonable. My understanding, if I am correctly interpreting the testimony, is that it's not a private business's record. It's a record that would be within the CBSA's system, since they are the ones that hired the private contractor—in this case, the company that the previous witness has—to fulfill a service. Therefore, the CBSA is responsible for that.

I think it would be very helpful, especially for privacy implications, if we could see that.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Kurek.

The motion's on the floor. Do we have any other discussion on the motion?

Go ahead, Mr. Dong.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I'm not a regular member of this committee, but as a normal practice, could that motion be emailed to us? Maybe we can take a break of a couple of minutes so that we can have the discussion.

[The Clerk]

We only have the English wording.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

We only have the English version, Mr. Dong, so it would take us a few minutes to translate it.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I can read the motion again. I'd be happy to do so.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Would that satisfy you, Mr. Dong?

Go ahead, Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I believe, of course, in consensus and trying to make it work, but Mr. Kurek, you'll have to forgive me. At the beginning of the Parliament.... As a Quebec member, I'm reluctant to do that, because if we start now, when we are all in agreement and we're all doing it in good faith.... I would hate for this to become a habit, because I know which official language ends up being on the losing end of this.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Fergus, if it's helpful, the interpreters have the English language. They can interpret it in French, if that's helpful to you.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

What I would suggest is that we take a pause for a couple of minutes. We can come back in committee business and deal with it then. I'm certain that Mr. Kurek can lean on some resources in his party to circulate it in both official languages.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I have a point of order.

This is an at-hand motion on a topic relevant to the witnesses in the study. There's nothing procedurally out of hand by having somebody speak to a motion on record. I'm not clear....

I'm concerned now that there's a precedent so that any time there's an at-hand motion, there's going to be this suggestion that we have to have it distributed, and that's simply not the case.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I appreciate the intervention, Mr. Fergus.

Just to speed things along—and I'm going to seek Mr. Villemure's concurrence on this, as well—is it okay if we have the interpreter read it into the record so that you can understand it?

The clerk has just advised that she has the text at this point, so that's helpful.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Nancy Vohl]

Do you want me to distribute the English and French text to everybody?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I would like it to be distributed in English and French.

I know that Mr. Fergus is not intending on delaying this process. We need to make sure that everybody's clear on what they're voting on.

We'll suspend for a few minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

We're back.

My understanding is that everybody has received Mr. Kurek's motion.

Is there any other discussion on Mr. Kurek's motion?

Go ahead, Mr. Barrett.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Chair, I don't think there's any other discussion on the motion. It has been circulated. We're ready for a vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I'm actually looking to see if we can get any consensus on this before we get to a vote.