Evidence of meeting #52 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:40 p.m.
As an Individual
I believe in a system of government where citizens are participating in a process where there is an honest brokerage of knowledge of what their governments are doing. This act does not do that.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Villemure.
Thank you, Mr. Conte.
Next we are going to go to Mr. Green, for two and a half minutes.
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Conte, in your article titled, “Canada continues to censor internal interviews on review of Afghan war”, you state, “Until we abolish the Access to Information Act and create an access system of civil liability, the current system of discretionary good faith will continue to be used as a de facto system of state censorship and a covert extension of the Official Secrets Act.”
Can you describe what an “access system of civil liability” would look like?
5:40 p.m.
As an Individual
It's been somewhat referred to in testimony today and testimony from previous witnesses.
If I don't pay my taxes, there are consequences. There are rules to abide by in a collective society of things that are expected from you. According to the Access—
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'll put the question more directly, because I only have a limited amount of time.
Are there countries that you have come across in your research that have, in your opinion, adequate systems of civil liability?
5:40 p.m.
As an Individual
From my experience in the United States, if a government doesn't play by the rules, there are forms of infrastructure—
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Excuse me. I've stopped the clock. We do have a point of order from Mr. Villemure.
5:40 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Mr. Chair, the interpreters are having trouble hearing what Mr. Green is saying.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
We had this problem earlier. You miraculously corrected it, Mr. Green, by raising your voice a bit. Can you try that for me?
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I would be happy to do that.
Let the record show that I'm wearing a government-issued headset here.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Mr. Conte, just in terms of finding international comparators that we might look to, you mentioned the United States. Is it through the courts that civilians can find remedies should the government fail to live up to its stated legislative requirements?
5:45 p.m.
As an Individual
In the short term, when we consider degrees of policy shift that are possible, the only remedy is through the courts. Whether it's through financial penalties that are leveraged on government officials and departments, whether it's through other kinds of means, there are currently no consequences if people do not comply.
For example, even with Bill C-58's order powers through the commissioner, there are government departments that are not complying with orders. There are government departments that are taking the commissioner to court over orders that the commissioner has issued. Why? Because—
5:45 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I will share with you an example from our own House of Commons. In the last session of government, the Speaker of the House had to take the government to court just to get documents that we demanded.
I know my time is up, but I do appreciate the witnesses being present today to provide their expert testimony.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Green.
We will now go to Mr. Barrett for five minutes as we continue the second round.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thanks, Chair, and thanks to the witnesses for being here.
I will just go through the panel with a couple of questions.
What is your longest outstanding ATIP? I will start with you, Mr. Beeby.
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Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Would you be able to say with which department it is outstanding?
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Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay.
Mr. Conte, go ahead.
5:45 p.m.
As an Individual
The longest-standing request that I have ongoing is with Library and Archives Canada, which goes back to 2018.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Mr. Tromp, what would be the longest outstanding ATIP request that you have with the Government of Canada?
5:45 p.m.
As an Individual
I would say the worst backlogged department in regard to journalists is the RCMP. I have requests dating back at least six or seven years. It's almost a disaster over there.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Did we lose our other witness?
Mr. Jolly, are you still there?