Evidence of meeting #52 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I guess it depends on how you define a functioning democracy, which I don't know if I've seen in my lifetime, but in theory, yes.
4:55 p.m.
Stanley Tromp As an Individual
Hello, this is Stanley Tromp.
Can you hear me? Is my microphone working?
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Yes, Mr. Tromp.
I'm going to stop the time here.
Mr. Tromp, we were having technical difficulties with your connection. I'm going to keep you on mute until we get through this round, and then I'm going to invite you to speak to the committee. Is that okay, sir?
I don't see you, either. That's the other problem. I just heard you, but I can't see you. We are going to put you on mute for a bit until we can resolve this technical issue.
We're going to continue on with the witnesses.
4:55 p.m.
President, Canadian Association of Journalists
To answer your question, yes. I think there's a widely attributed quote to Mr. Thomas Jefferson that says information is the currency of democracy, so yes, I'd be inclined to agree with your comment.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
I appreciate that. I value greatly referencing that quote, which I've considered myself.
The second question that I've asked all of the witnesses who have appeared on this study is whether the status quo is acceptable.
I know you've all outlined that in your statements but, again, it's helpful in compiling testimony for the report, so I'll ask the three of you here. Is the status quo in Canada's access to information system acceptable?
Go ahead, Mr. Beeby.
4:55 p.m.
As an Individual
No, and it's in sharp decline, so it's getting worse every year.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
President, Canadian Association of Journalists
I think it's clear that our entire information ecosystem is something that needs valuable support right now. Time is of the essence.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
Thank you very much.
As a member of Parliament, my office and I have filed several hundred access to information requests on a whole host of issues, from dealing with constituent casework to some of the big political issues of the day. I'd find it valuable to hear—in short, and I'll go around the table again—if you could point to a couple of the extreme examples of delays or redactions that you've experienced in your time with the access to information system first-hand.
This time I'll go in reverse.
Mr. Jolly, if you could try to keep it to about 30 seconds—I know that's pretty tough—what are examples of the most egregious delays or redactions, in your experience?
5 p.m.
President, Canadian Association of Journalists
We've done a lot of work on the RCMP in trying to uncover police malfeasance and accountability. We've run different campaigns over time, where we've documented and asked for our members to provide a series of information. I'd be happy to share that with the committee for its review and consideration.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
That would be great. If you have examples of the number of years, or whatever the case may be, that would be fantastic, as well.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
Mr. Conte, it's the same question. Do you have any examples that you could share with the committee so that we can really understand it, in about 30 seconds? I know that's probably tough.
5 p.m.
As an Individual
In one of the articles that I submitted to you, I reported on a presentation by LAC, the Library and Archives Canada, and the Office of the Information Commissioner's forum that they presented online about a year ago. They reported that 80% of the information that is classified as top-secret in the LAC vaults is not top-secret. This symbolizes the frictional nature of CSIS, which is doing those redactions and maintaining that censorship, and the relationship between the LAC and the Office of the Information Commissioner.
I would invite you to speak to those representatives to get more clarity on that.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
I appreciate that.
In my last 30 seconds, I have Mr. Beeby.
5 p.m.
As an Individual
To be brief, I have had so many disappointments. For example, I asked for briefing notes for Prime Minister Harper and received them seven years later, after a new government and three elections.
How am I supposed to hold the government to account when I become, essentially, a historian, rather than a journalist?
5 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
I appreciate that.
Thank you very much to the witnesses for their information.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Kurek.
Next we'll go to Ms. Hepfner.
It looks like some of the technical challenges may have been corrected with Mr. Tromp. You're in the bullpen right now, Mr. Tromp. We're going to have a pitching change in a few minutes.
Ms. Hepfner, you're next for six minutes, please.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
It is a real pleasure for me to be here, with journalists in attendance. I worked as a journalist for more than 20 years and I witnessed first-hand the changes in the industry during that time.
What we've heard from witnesses at this committee previously is that there's more information available than at any previous time in our history. I'm wondering what sorts of challenges and what sorts of benefits journalists are seeing from the change of having more information available now than ever before.
I'll ask all of you, but maybe Mr. Beeby can start.
5 p.m.
As an Individual
Thank you for the question.
All information is not created equal. A lot of information pushed out there has really little relevance to public affairs and public discourse. It's a bit of a game to say that more and more information is available. Is it useful information? Is it information that helps inquire into decision-making at the highest levels? I would say it's really that core information that we're not seeing more of. In fact, I think we're seeing less and less of it.
I really have to push back against this argument that we're awash in information. Not all information is created equal. Much of it is not useful to the profession of journalism.
5 p.m.
Liberal
5 p.m.
As an Individual
It depends on what kind of information you're talking about. There's more misinformation available than ever before as well. If we're talking about government information, it's very easy to manipulate what is credible, legitimate information and what is not.