Evidence of meeting #56 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Rob Stewart  Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Daniel Pilon  Director General, National Accommodations, Domestic Procurement and Asset Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Brassard

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 56 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022, and therefore members can attend in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. Should any technical challenges arise, please advise me. Please note that we may need to suspend for a few minutes as we need to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, January 31, 2023, the committee commenced its study of the subject matter of the report of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner entitled “Ng Report”.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses.

With us from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development is Mr. Rob Stewart, who is deputy minister of international trade. As well, we have Mr. Daniel Pilon, director general of procurement and asset management.

Mr. Stewart, you have five minutes, sir. The floor is yours.

3:45 p.m.

Rob Stewart Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Thank you, Chair.

Good afternoon, members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to appear before you today.

As the chair said, my name is Rob Stewart and I am joined by my colleague Daniel Pilon.

Today, I will give you an overview of Global Affairs Canada's overall role in the awarding of contracts and of how we make payments for services once they have been provided. I will also provide a high-level overview of the process the department followed in awarding and paying for the Pomp & Circumstance contract requested by the minister's office in April 2020.

Like all departments, Global Affairs Canada and the ministers' offices of the department have the authority to award contracts up to a certain value, as outlined in the government contracting regulations and the Treasury Board contracting policy, now known as the Treasury Board directive on procurement.

When officials in the department or exempt staff from a minister's office have delegated financial authority and make a decision to obtain goods and services from the private sector, they send a request for a contract to the departmental procurement staff. The request includes a description of the work to be performed, and depending on the dollar value, a supplier may already be identified.

Depending on the nature and value of the request, the procurement office may then undertake several different contracting steps to award the contract. These might involve a sole-source contract or a more formal competitive bidding process. These decision points and the contracting processes and procedures that departmental staff follow are outlined in the policies I have mentioned.

Once the contract is awarded, the minister's official or exempt staff member who requested the contract is responsible for monitoring the supplier's performance to ensure that goods and services are provided in accordance with the contract and to the requester's satisfaction.

Upon receipt of an invoice, the delegated person certifies that the services have been received and approves payment of the invoice. This invoice is then forwarded to finance staff, who process the invoice and issue payment to the supplier.

In the particular instance of the contract with Pomp & Circumstance, the initial request for media training services was sent to procurement staff by the chief of staff to Minister Ng. The chief of staff was the minister's office staffer with the appropriate delegated authority to make such a request.

As the proposed amount of the contract was $16,950, the procurement staff determined that the value was under the sole-source threshold of $40,000. The procurement staff therefore proceeded to award the contract following sole-source procedures.

Once the contract was drafted and signed, the minister's office then worked with the company to obtain the required services. Once the services were delivered, an invoice for those services was received, verified, and approved by the minister's office and sent to Department of Finance staff for processing. Payment was then made in full to the vendor.

I will now gladly answer your questions.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Brassard

Thank you, Mr. Stewart.

For the first round of questioning, the six-minute round, we're going to go to Mr. Barrett.

You have six minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Thanks very much, Chair.

Mr. Stewart and Mr. Pilon, thank you for joining us today.

How many communication staff do you have in your department, Mr. Stewart?

3:45 p.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Rob Stewart

That's a very good question, Mr. Barrett. I estimate we have something in the order of a hundred. I would estimate that.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Would you have an estimate for the total budget for the salaries for those one hundred?

3:45 p.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Rob Stewart

I do not. I can get that information for you.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

I would appreciate that. Thanks very much.

Do these staff provide services like digital products and things that, perhaps, the minister would present in meetings? Do they provide digital products that would be posted on social media?

3:45 p.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Rob Stewart

Yes, they do.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Would these staff also conduct media relations and deal with media at the destination, where the minister is working? Would they deal with media here in Ottawa and prepare the minister for interactions with the media?

3:45 p.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Rob Stewart

I would say that, as a general rule, in most cases it's all except the latter. In this case, what I'm referring to is that the media staff will prepare the presentations or the materials. They'll interact with the media and they'll set the scene. They do not necessarily prep the minister.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

There's no one of the hundred communications staff who prepares the minister before she scrums or before she does a press conference.

3:45 p.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Rob Stewart

To the best of my knowledge, departmental communications staff work with ministerial communication staff to prepare the minister, and the primary responsibility rests with the minister's staff.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

It would be politically exempt staff who prepare the minister in those cases.

3:45 p.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Rob Stewart

That's correct.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Do you know how many politically exempt staff the minister operates with in her communications apparatus?

3:45 p.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Rob Stewart

I do not. I would hazard a guess that it's in the order of four or five.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Okay. Thanks.

Do those staff, to your understanding, perform other functions, other than preparing the minister for media interactions?

3:50 p.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Rob Stewart

My understanding is that they perform all of the duties associated with communications, including message preparation and delivery.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Regarding the competency of your one hundred staff, would it be fair to say that you believe them to be competent to execute the responsibilities that they were engaged for? That's the digital work, preparing digital products for presentation and preparing communications.

Are they competent to execute their job functions?

3:50 p.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Rob Stewart

I would say so.

I would take the opportunity to point out that the Department of Global Affairs serves three ministers, so it has a fairly extensive communications department that covers a lot of ground in terms of issues, products and services.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Is it your experience that the politically exempt staff working for Minister Ng are also professional and competent in the execution of their duties?

February 7th, 2023 / 3:50 p.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Can you think of any examples when more staff might have been helpful to the minister, or when the number of that staff complement was not sufficient for the minister?

3:50 p.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Rob Stewart

I would have to say no to that question, to the best of my knowledge.