Evidence of meeting #56 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay.
Do you know of other examples of the contractor that's referenced in the “Ng Report”, Pomp & Circumstance? Do you know of them providing services to other government departments or ministers?
3:50 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
No, I do not.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay.
What would the process look like if there was awareness by a deputy minister that their minister...? I'll pose this as a hypothetical, because my understanding is that you were not Minister Ng's DM at the time she procured the services of Pomp & Circumstance. Is that correct?
3:50 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
That is correct.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
What would it look like in a situation where a deputy minister became aware their minister was potentially in violation of the Conflict of Interest Act? The DM is a public office holder who is also subject to the act and understands the rules as well.
Is there a process that is established, or would that be a conversation that the DM has with the minister? What would that look like?
3:50 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
As a general rule, deputy ministers would not be privy to these affairs. These are administrative affairs that are undertaken by offices and officers of the department, like my colleague, Monsieur Pilon.
In the unusual event some circumstance arose, as a deputy minister, my job would be to serve the minister to the best of my ability.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
In my last 40 seconds, sir, with a staff complement of over a hundred with respect to communications, politically exempt staff, I just can't understand why these services were required and why this vendor would have been solicited, if not only for the purpose of providing business to the friend of the minister. Your answer seemed to demonstrate high competency and a suite of abilities that would satisfy the requirements the minister has.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
That's it, Mr. Barrett. Thank you. You can pick that up in your next round.
Next we have Ms. Khalid.
You have six minutes, Ms. Khalid.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
I thank you, Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
Maybe I will pick up from where Mr. Barrett left off with respect to the context in 2020. What was it like in Global Affairs at the height of the pandemic as the government was rolling out more and more initiatives? What was it like within your department as you were servicing three ministers within the department? Also, how important is it for Canadians to have known about all of these services that were being provided to potentially millions of Canadians who lost their jobs?
What was it like? Can you help us understand?
3:50 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Well, if you'll allow me, I will respond not as the deputy minister of international trade, but as the former deputy minister of public safety, because I was there then.
I would make a couple of points. At the beginning of the pandemic, the atmosphere was quite chaotic. Decisions were being made very quickly. The government recognized that important measures needed to be taken to protect Canadians and to support them, and it was making those decisions on an almost daily basis. Here, I'm referring to things like border policy and economic supports for Canadian individuals and Canadian businesses.
I think that would have been true for the Department of Global Affairs, which at the time was dealing with an airlift of people who were living in Wuhan to begin with, but otherwise Canadians who were living around the world. It was a massive and very convulsive effort for the department to undertake at the time, in addition to communicating generally about COVID policy and the risks of travel.
Many departments were working collaboratively to deal with the situation and to come up with advice and implement new policy, so at the time it was quite inordinately busy, I would say, and very difficult for anyone to have a bird's-eye view of all the things that were going on.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Would you say that at that time the government needed to get its message out to Canadians in every way possible?
3:55 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I would say that as a general matter—again, from the point of view of a public servant—it was very important that Canadians understand what supports and services were available to them.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
How long does the process normally take from the time of seeking out a contract to the time the contract goes through all of that vetting process? What's the average time?
3:55 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mr. Pilon?
3:55 p.m.
Daniel Pilon Director General, National Accommodations, Domestic Procurement and Asset Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The average time for a sole-source contract can take anywhere from two weeks to a month, depending on the nature and the complexity of the service. That's if it's a sole source. If it's a competitive process, then it does increase considerably beyond that point.
Thank you.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
How long does it take to onboard new staff, from advertising for the staff position until hiring for the staff position and going through all of the security checks, etc.? How long does that take?
3:55 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Generally, again, it would take quite a long time to bring staff up to speed as fully functioning members of the team. I would hazard a guess that it's in the order of months.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you.
Do officials also receive media communications training in your department?
3:55 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Those who face the media do receive media training as a mandatory thing.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you.
What was the increase in media inquiries that were coming into the department during the pandemic? I realize you were not there, so perhaps Monsieur Pilon can comment.
3:55 p.m.
Director General, National Accommodations, Domestic Procurement and Asset Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I would not have visibility into that, my apologies. We can get you that information.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Maybe for context, then, you were in Public Safety during that time. What were media inquiries like within that department?
February 7th, 2023 / 3:55 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
There was a very high volume of media inquiries about a whole range of things that were happening at the time.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you.
We talked about the volume and the increase in work and in communications products being handed out. What is that work like now? What does the communications capacity look like right now within Global Affairs?