Evidence of meeting #56 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Prior to the two contracts being awarded, was anybody in either of your departments aware of a potential conflict of interest, given the high-profile nature of this social media influencer, this Liberal pundit, this close friend and bestie of the minister?
Were you aware of a potential for conflict? Were there any red flags raised within either of your departments?
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I was not in the department, but to the best of my knowledge, no.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
When you say “to the best of my knowledge”, in preparation for this meeting, would anybody have briefed you on what was known at the time?
February 7th, 2023 / 4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
In that briefing, you're suggesting today that there was no indication, given the high-profile nature of this person, that there could have been a potential conflict of interest. Nobody within the department, to your knowledge, raised a red flag on this.
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The award of this particular contract was decided by the minister's office and executed by the procurement office in the department.
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It wasn't floating to other parts of the—
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'll ask the question more directly, Mr. Stewart.
In the briefing in preparation for this meeting, was there anything in that book of yours that would have documented anybody within your departments who would have raised a red flag?
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
No.
4:10 p.m.
Director General, National Accommodations, Domestic Procurement and Asset Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
No.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
This is a high-profile person, a good friend and somebody who's a pundit on TV all the time. Nobody raised a red flag anywhere.
Is that a deficiency in the act or in the people who are within your departments and going through this process?
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The Conflict of Interest Act puts the obligation on the individual.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
We'll say that's a deficiency of the ministry. I'll use my words, not yours, but I'll take that.
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
We could—and I think this is probably a useful suggestion for the committee to contemplate—contemplate revising government policy to ask the question in a more explicit fashion: “Is there a potential conflict of interest in this matter?”
However, that is not a question we asked then or—
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
As part of dealing with ministerial procurement, don't you guys ask if there's a conflict of interest?
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
No, and that's because the obligation rests with the minister and her office.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
It sounds like we almost need an attestation for every piece of procurement, given the history, going back to ad scams, WE and everything else that we've been distracted by, quite frankly. It sounds like we might be able to pull out some kind of recommendations moving forward.
My last question is about the second contract for Pomp & Circumstance. Given that the first one was awarded in March, was there any hesitancy whatsoever in awarding that second contract on the sole-source procurement of it?
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Can we clarify the contract order you're referring to? The contract that was subject to the review by the commissioner was the March contract.
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
That was the second contract.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Okay.
I'll wait until my next round. I see I'm at six minutes.
Thanks.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Green.
That concludes our first round of questioning. We're going to go to our second round.
I forgot earlier to welcome Ms. Lantsman to the committee. Ms. Lantsman, welcome.
You have five minutes. The floor is yours.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister Stewart and Mr. Pilon, for joining us.
I'm going to pick up right where Mr. Green left off, but first I want to know something from you, Mr. Stewart. I know you weren't there at the time as deputy minister; that's been well noted. In your time and your career throughout the public service—we know you've been at other departments—has it been unusual to have a sole-source contract of this nature for communications that was initiated by the minister and carried out by the department? How many, would you say, have you seen throughout your career?