Evidence of meeting #56 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
That could be done by a public servant who is more familiar with these considerations.
4:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
As Mr. Green said, it doesn't necessarily have to be someone who knows the people involved. In fact, there would have to be a process or a step in the process that requires certain information.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Okay.
Being subject to the provisions of the Conflict of Interest Act yourself, do you believe that those who are subject to it are sufficiently well informed?
In the case of a minister, for example, shouldn't there be an additional step? The commissioner talked about a conflict of interest filter. In a way, that would ensure that these people are well protected.
February 7th, 2023 / 4:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes, something like that could be done.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
The goal is always to improve the legislation.
My colleague talked about a number of elements and, over the years, we've often talked about WE Charity. Without getting into the topic of the appointment, do you measure the impact of your actions on the public's trust in government processes and government?
4:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It is not my role to do so, but surveys are continually carried out on this subject.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
I imagine so.
So it's not part of your role. But one can imagine that it still impacts public trust.
4:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I won't comment on that, Mr. Villemure.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Okay.
Do you think the act should be amended to make ministers' office staff subject to it?
4:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Without necessarily amending the act, it would be possible to amend the regulations.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
So it would be a good thing to amend the regulations to cover more people so that they are better informed and this does not happen again.
4:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
That's right.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Very good. Thank you.
I have no further questions, Mr. Chair.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Villemure.
Mr. Green, you have two and a half minutes.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you.
Monsieur Pilon, you're aware, I'm sure, that when MPs make a purchase, when we are paying vendors and submit invoices on the financial portal, a pop-up comes up to make sure it's in accordance with the procurement. Are you aware of that?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, National Accommodations, Domestic Procurement and Asset Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I'm not aware of the members of Parliament's procurement process, no. I'm sorry.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
4:25 p.m.
Director General, National Accommodations, Domestic Procurement and Asset Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
At Global Affairs, when a client—we call them “fund centre managers”—requests a service, there is an attestation process or a certification process that asks them to certify that the goods were received, yes.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
The attestation is after the products are delivered, but not to make sure they're in accordance with the procurement policy.
4:25 p.m.
Director General, National Accommodations, Domestic Procurement and Asset Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The attestation is confirmation that the goods were received in accordance with the contract.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Okay. I mentioned perhaps having ministerial attestation for these types of things.
I will put on the record that I think it's a tremendous waste of your time to have to be here to defend something that you really had nothing to do with. The context matters, but I'd much rather have you doing the work that you're doing in your ministries.
From your perspective, do you think there could be a benefit to having, within the checks and balances of ministerial procurement, pop-ups or attestations that would go on the record in advance and ensure that what they're doing is in accordance with the Conflict of Interest Act?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, National Accommodations, Domestic Procurement and Asset Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Okay.
I want to allow you the opportunity, Mr. Stewart. You answered, and I appreciate that. I imagine you're a guy with a lot of ideas. I would love to give you the opportunity right now to share any recommendations you might have that could be for our consideration on ways in which we might be able to improve upon the compliance mechanisms for the Conflict of Interest Act.
4:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Well, I'll pick up on what you just said, Mr. Green, which is to say that I think there could be, in the process of awarding a contract, a specific box that ensures that the department, as the agent on behalf of the minister's office, asks a question and gets the answer. It's not an audit process, but it's a certification process. I think that makes sense to me.
It also makes sense to me for people who have delegated authority in ministers' offices to get the training on sections 32 and 34 sign-offs that they need, because those sign-offs are the ones that embed public sector values and ethics and respect for contracting principles of fairness and integrity.