Information & Ethics Committee on April 18th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

You have just 10 seconds.

[Stephen Burt]

All right. I'll be quick.

It's about knowing the safety and protection measures to take when problems arise. It's like driving a car. If you want to go fast, you have to have good brakes.

Those basic considerations always have to inform programs when they're being designed.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Minister, Mr. Burt and Mr. Villemure.

Mr. Green, you have six minutes. Go ahead.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

An article titled “Treasury Board's overdue review of Access Act is big on propaganda, light on recommendations” stated that the review was a “delay tactic to prevent meaningful changes to access legislation”. Your review in fact has no legislative amendments.

Do you believe that no legislative amendments are necessary to achieve the outcomes that you've stated within the report?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

First of all, thank you for the question.

I'd like to say that when I had the privilege of being President of the Treasury Board, we were looking at that review. We did it in two steps. Importantly, we needed to do the review, and then we realized we really needed to have an opportunity to engage with indigenous peoples. That is why, partly, we took the time to engage with indigenous peoples and ensure that they were part of this review.

The conclusions are going to be very helpful in determining—and I had mentioned this earlier—how the action plan will look into what next steps the Treasury Board will be undertaking.

On the administrative approach—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

The question is quite clear. Do you not believe that there need to be legislative amendments in order to strengthen the access to information?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I believe that in C-58 we said that we'd review the legislation—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That was four years ago. We're talking about now.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

It's five years that we've had it. We will be taking the necessary time to propose the next steps.

For me, right now, administrative changes are important—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to take my time back, thank you.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

If I might be able to finish—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

No, you have the time that I have allotted in the question to the answer, and you've exceeded that.

You've talked about engagement as being part of the reason you've delayed providing legislative amendments, yet many submissions provided included recommendations for legislative amendments.

Do you believe the report is representative of the public engagement that occurred, considering that you've ignored the recommendations?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

First of all, to answer the question, we will look into how and if we can bring forward legislation changes.

At this time, I was saying that my priority is to make sure that we continue to reinforce the work that we're doing to have an ATI system.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

The Public Service Alliance of Canada has announced that over 155,000 federal public servants will go on strike on Wednesday if a fair deal is not reached by the government. What impacts would a potential strike have on the access to information?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I know they are working very hard as we speak—both the Treasury Board and PSAC—to reach a deal.

As you know, before the mediation starts, we always look at what will be the essential services that will be offered during a strike. This is not deemed as an essential service in the understanding that PSAC and—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Just for the record, Mr. Chair, the PSAC has gone three years without a contract. Is that correct?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Are we talking about the review right now, or are we talking...?

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm asking you a supplementary question to my follow-up.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Since 2021, the four groups that we're dealing with.... I'm dealing with 28 agreements right now. The ones that we're dealing with today are four groups that have not.... We're looking at 2021 to the next three or maybe four years for a deal.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

In her appearance before the committee, the Information Commissioner stated that “a model that gives the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister the power to limit the required funding of agents of Parliament is contrary to our oversight role. ”

Do you agree with the commissioner that the manner in which the ATI regime is funded should reflect their independence from cabinet or any particular minister?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I think it should be known that our government believes in funding the ATIP and the Information Commissioner. We increased her office's funding by 54%. Therefore, as you know, we will continue to—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

The question was about the independence of the funding, not about the amount of the funding. I'd like you to answer the question on whether or not you agree with the Information Commissioner on whether the model that would separate and provide independence in funding from the Prime Minister and the minister to this agency would perhaps better serve the independence of the office.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I thought I was clear by saying our government does support—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You were clear that you funded it, but you weren't clear on whether or not you supported that the Information—

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Yes, the government supports the independence of the Information Commissioner and appreciates her important work—