Information & Ethics Committee on April 18th, 2023

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I will let Ms. Luelo take the question.

[Catherine Luelo]

Thank you very much for your question.

I think one of the challenges in this space is that you have departments individually interpreting exceptions and exclusions. Part of what we have done is given guidance to the town on how we would like to have things applied. As well, the minister has already referenced the training that was available.

Stephen, is there anything you'd like to add?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Ms. Luelo.

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

Mr. Green, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

Minister, you cited the need for indigenous consultations on the work you're doing right now. I want to reference the “what we heard” report. In that, there were many conclusions in relation to advancing indigenous reconciliation, which could be interpreted as vague or making broad claims about being committed to facilitating, supporting and furthering indigenous-led information and data strategies.

Why were more specific recommendations that are reflective of the eight indigenous-specific submissions not included?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Again, we did a very thorough approach, I believe, to indigenous peoples to have their participation in this review, as the engagement and the outreach were very important. The conclusions brought forward, that we take measures necessary to ensure that federal laws are consistent with the declaration.... Actually, this is linked to UNDRIP because we also have to—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

With respect, I asked a specific question and I'm going to need a specific answer. It's regarding the eight indigenous-specific submissions. Why were they not included in your recommendations, if indigenous engagement and consultation are important to you?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

We had two reports. The first one was the first review, and then we wanted to make sure we had engagement with the indigenous peoples, which was a second review. We brought all that together to do—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Was the second review the “what we heard” report?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Yes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay. In that, there was feedback that you were also receiving information from non-indigenous entities as well. What was the purpose of consulting non-indigenous entities on issues specific to indigenous people?

[Catherine Luelo]

There were two consultations. One was done with the general population, and we published a “what we heard” report. At that point, we reoriented and said we needed to speak with indigenous communities. We did that engagement over a period of about nine months and published a “what we heard” report from that, which was included with the final report that you're referencing.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Were there non-indigenous organizations consulted on the indigenous-specific “what we heard” report and, if so, how many and why?

[Catherine Luelo]

I don't know the answer to that question. We can certainly come back to the committee with an answer on that. I don't believe so, but—

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay.

Mr. Chair, let the record show that the Rotary Club has a precedent for phone interruptions, and I would like this member levied at least $25 for the good and welfare of the committee.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

You have my sincere apologies.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Green, thank you for your intervention.

I was thinking $50, but if you want to be benevolent and have $25, then that's fine.

[A voice]

There's inflation.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay, we're done with the time for Mr. Green's round.

I said four minutes, but we're probably closer to three at this point. Just to let you know, we're going to Mr. Kurek, and we may have Mr. Barrett intervene at some point. Then I'm sorry, Mr. Fergus, but you'll have three minutes this round.

Go ahead.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thanks, Chair.

Madam Minister, have you ever filed an access to information request?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

No.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I've filed a number of them, and 60% closed in 30 days is a pipe dream compared to my experience—to give you some context.

I'm glad you brought up Bill C-58. However, when hearing from witnesses, they had a very different experience and in fact outlined quite a few times how a few disclosures and reduced fees seem to be a way for the government to hide behind increased secrecy in their actions.

In light of all of that—and we've heard a lot of criticisms of Bill C-58—why are the criticisms about Bill C-58, which your government passed a number of years ago, not included in your report?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

The important thing is that we did actually bring legislation after 30 years of this law not having been looked at, and I believe that we also gave the Information Commissioner order-making power. As I said, we also eliminated the fees beyond a $5 application and also put into law a system of proactive disclosure of information from the ministers' offices, port authorities and other government institutions. We will continue that work to make sure we provide an open and transparent system.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thanks, Minister, but the point stands that the experience of many people who have used the system is certainly not what you're describing here today.

I'd like to hand my time over to Mr. Barrett.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

Madam Minister, the Information Commissioner told this committee that your report was a summary of problems that are well known and have been identified for years.

On what date will you present a list of solutions to those problems, and on what date will you have effected the completion of those recommendations?