Evidence of meeting #69 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foundation.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Who were the other people who would have been named as a potential conflict of interest?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Pascale claimed that the lawyers told her that anyone active in the governance structures in the years of the donation would.... That was false. No lawyers told her that. When they came to the board, they said, “No, of course not. It's way too early for these kinds of opinions.”
The essence was setting up an independent committee before this even happened—
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
—of board members, because in our bylaws, external lawyers and experts all answer to the board, not to management. It's part of, quite frankly, normal governance practices.
The chair immediately tried.... As soon as there was this notion that there was a crisis of information going on, he had to set up an independent inquiry and wanted three board members who were not present at the time. This was his instinct—his second nature—and he did that.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'm going to interject, because I am also quite surprised, given the nature of the people who are on that board, that you ended up in what appears to be a bit of a crisis management problem. That's given the high-calibre people who were there and, quite frankly, given some of the conflicting testimony that has been presented at this committee.
Having served on a local community foundation board myself, I'm not sure how you guys got there, but that's not what is at issue here. What is at issue is the foreign interference stuff. With this idea and the allegations that were made, I think it's important that you have a chance to respond.
In a Le Devoir article on the climate within the foundation, you stated that there was “a management crisis”, which you attributed to errors of judgment and serious misconduct.
In your opening remarks, you also stated that you were part of a committee that hires a president. Is that correct?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
That's correct, yes. All four.
NDP
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
She was a former scholar of the first round.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I have known her for 20 years.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I can speculate on it, I guess.
The climate at the foundation had grown more difficult. She had some very good skill sets, and from the point of view of the board, she managed our programming quite well, and it's complicated, but the staff environment.... The board was realizing that there was more and more....
I'm a member, so I have some custodial involvement, but I'm not directly.... Even I was hearing that there was an enormous amount of turnover in the staff.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
There were also allegations that there was a hostile climate at the board level, with intimidation, bullying, conflicts, internal—
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
At the board? No, never.
There were a very tense few weeks at the end, when there was a fight over management trying to set up an investigation itself and making false representations to the board.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Are you aware that she has offered to provide some documents that may offer accounts conflicting with what you're presenting here today?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I'm all for all the documents to come forward. If the chair of the board comes forward, I would like to submit the resumé from the directors of what happened.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
In her testimony, Ms. Fournier stated that she did not use any money associated with the donation because it had nothing to do with her mandate and it wasn't a part of the previous mandate either.
Given that you were involved in the conversations and negotiations with donors who established the conditions that the money must be used to organize lectures regarding China, why did you agree to these conditions for the donation, despite the fact that they did not align with—
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I signed the contract, but I did not negotiate the agreement.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
When I was contacted by Jean-François Gaudreault-DesBiens, we were in an interim period. Our president had left and we were in a—
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I was not involved in negotiations, no. I was—