Evidence of meeting #69 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foundation.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
in 2019, the University of Montreal dean of the faculty of law, France Houle, wrote that the Trudeau foundation wanted to give the faculty of law of the Université de Montréal a $200,000 donation. She was referring to a discussion that her predecessor—Gaudreault-DesBiens, whom you have referenced—had with you, Alexandre Trudeau, in which you mentioned that the foundation wanted to do that.
Do you recall that?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I met with Gaudreault-DesBiens. I even met with the donor on June 2, but at that time my communications to them all the time, as I said, were interim.
In June, when I finally met with the rector of the université and the donor, I told them all the same thing, which was that we had just chosen our new president and that it was his mandate to manage and negotiate donations.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
In retrospect, do you wish you had just given it to the university?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Mr. Green, I'm sorry. I hate this part of the job, honestly, of having to cut people off, but I do have to stick by the times. We did go a little over.
That concludes our first round of questioning. We should be able to get the entire second round in.
We're going to start with Mr. Barrett for five minutes. Go ahead, sir.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Mr. Trudeau, you said that your involvement came in December 2013. That's eight months after your brother became the leader of the Liberal Party.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I missed your question. Sorry, what was it?
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I was recounting that you had said you first became involved with this through the university in December of 2013. Is that correct?
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
That was eight months after your brother became leader of the Liberal Party.
Then in September of 2014, regime officials participated in a meeting with the foundation to negotiate this donation.
Then in September of 2015, weeks before the federal election, there was a massive push—a rush, with less than a day to complete the signing of this donation, but it didn't come to pass.
In May of 2016, two weeks before the donation contract was signed, China Cultural Industry Association representatives met with the Prime Minister in the residence of Benson Wong, who is the chair of the board of directors of the Chinese Business Chamber of Canada.
Then the donation was finalized in June, and in July of that year the CCIA confirmed that the payment of the first installment of $70,000 had been made.
Then in October, Justin Trudeau met with Mr. Gensheng.
This process has gone on for years, but there seems to be urgency for it only around political events involving the now Prime Minister of a G7 country, and there is direct involvement by officials from the dictatorship in China.
When did you first meet Zhang Bin?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I met him June 2, 2014.
You realize the money was never spent, right? The donations came through in two parts, and then the third part was basically refused and we never launched the program or spent the money.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thank you.
When did you first meet Niu Gensheng?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I met him only at the signing ceremony at the Université de Montréal.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
That was in 2016?
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
When you met with Mr. Zhang, what were the discussions? Was it specifically about the mandate of the foundation? Were political affairs discussed, the culture in Canada?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
When I met him in June, I seem to remember he said that he was really excited about.... Again, the consular officials were translating his words. I don't remember if they were.... Anyone there was very junior, but he was excited about what he had done at U of T and he was excited about doing something similar at Université de Montréal.
I think Monsieur Lefebvre reported at one point how he was a little bit irked that the Trudeau family was suddenly involved in the Trudeau foundation. He wanted to apply the same model he had applied at the U of T at Université de Montréal.
He was friendly, but not overly so, and I told him what I was telling Mr. Green—that we had to wait for the new president to come in to start negotiations.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Did this donation and its connection to the CCP ever raise any red flags for you?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
You said the connection to the CPP. This donation came from a private company in good standing in Canada. This is a company whose bank account is with the Bank of Montreal, which is governed by very strict rules on money laundering and all the rest.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
So the answer is no.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I checked it as soon as I knew that he was in.... What is this Chinese cultural industry association? I wouldn't call it the British Council or the Goethe-Institut, but these are paragovernmental—
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I have to take my time back; I have 30 seconds left.
The CCIA is established as being a soft power arm of the Communist Party of China. That's an established fact.
When did you become aware that Canada's intelligence services were investigating this as an influence operation? When you found out, who did you talk to about it?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Like others, I only read it in The Globe and Mail, and I questioned the veracity of it right away. I don't think this is accurate information.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
How much time do I have left?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Your time is up. Thank you, Mr. Barrett.
Mr. Trudeau, the next question is from Madam Martinez Ferrada.
Ms. Martinez-Ferrada, you have the floor for five minutes.