Evidence of meeting #69 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foundation.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
You said that you had received an urgent email asking you to go to the Université de Montréal. Can you tell us more about that?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I gave the committee an article from the University of Toronto explaining just how proud they were to receive money from this donor in commemoration of Dr. Bethune.
When I met the donor in June, he told me that this particular moment had made him so proud that he wanted to do the same thing for the Université de Montréal, a francophone university, in commemoration of someone whom the Chinese believed to be another great Canadian, Mr. Pierre Elliott Trudeau. He wanted to do this in the fall of 2013. I imagine that there had been some agreements with Mr. Lefebvre. Since the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation already existed, they no doubt thought that it would be better to begin by consulting Mr. Trudeau's family.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
You said that you had been asked to get involved with the foundation because you stood for the Pierre Elliott Trudeau name or brand.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Well, my brother couldn't do it because he had other things on his plate. By default, I was the one who was handling private matters on behalf of the family. I'm still doing so, moreover.
The donor and the Université de Montréal wanted it to be done very quickly and for me to give them the green light. At the time, I was writing a book about China and thought it would be great for Canada to contribute to China's education, if I can put it that way. I felt it was important for Chinese researchers and the people of China to understand how things were done in Canada and why the Canadian model is the best in the world, which is something I truly believe.
The people of China trust us, because of Dr. Bethune and Mr. Trudeau. Back in the day, the people of China said that Canadians were westerners they could trust. I don't think they are still saying that now.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
I would appreciate it you if you could briefly answer my last question, because I don't have much speaking time left.
Who first suggested that the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation could be a vehicle through which the contribution could be given to the Université de Montréal?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I told the Université de Montréal that normally, all university donations should go through the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation. That's not what they wanted to hear, but I asked them to wait until a certain senior official took up the position of president. After all, if anyone understands what democracy is all about, it's Mr. Rosenberg. At a briefing, he said that there might be some interest in establishing a program of donations that would involve the Université de Montréal, and perhaps the foundation. That's also what I said to the donor and the Université de Montréal.
I wasn't involved in the negotiations, because that's not the role of volunteers.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Fergus.
Mr. Villemure, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Trudeau, if Ms. Pascale Fournier was the problem at the foundation, why do you think the eight other directors also resigned?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Some of them believed what she was saying. They probably meant well, but they were afraid. When the president herself referred to herself as a lawyer… They would have been wiser to have waited for the inquiry.
Not only that, but the final email sent prior to Ms. Fournier's resignation said that there was going to be an inquiry. I would imagine that the former president was frustrated that the inquiry would be independent of the administration.
Bloc
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Don't forget that several of them were volunteers. Who wants to do volunteer work in a stressful environment with battle lines drawn? That's why some resigned from the board of directors.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
You know, there are all kinds of points that don't match up in the two versions.
Why should the committee believe you rather than Ms. Fournier, for instance?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
You'll be hearing testimony from the chairperson of the board.
Ask Ms. Fournier to tell you about the opinions of the lawyers who supposedly said there was a conflict of interest. She won't be able to, because the lawyers themselves said that there was none
Of course it's only my word, but there is evidence to back it up. You'll be able to find it in the documentary evidence you will be receiving. and elsewhere.
As I said earlier, I was not a director, but the directors who will be coming to testify will present it to you.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
We won't find evidence of a conflict of interest. Is that what you mean?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
You won't find any evidence to the effect that lawyers said there was a conflict of interest. You can even call upon those who were involved because they were in court. Anyone you decide to call upon will tell you about this issue.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
The firms were Borden Ladner Gervais and Miller Thomson.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
I know that you have a keen interest in China.
Where did this interest come from? How did it come about?
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
In 2005, Mr. Jacques Hébert, who had written the book Two Innocents in Red China with my father following a trip they made in 1960, had basically said that China may have been poor, problematic and so on, but that one day, within a few decades, it would become something important.
In 2005, a Shanghai publishing company wanted to publish the book. China had indeed become richer, and it was doing these sorts of things at the time. People there wanted to read what foreigners had written about China and as a result, for the first time, the book Two Innocents in Red China was translated into Chinese. The company invited Mr. Hébert to come to China and they asked me to write a preface, as the son of Pierre Trudeau, and a writer, which I did.
It was not my first time in China. I went there for the first time in 1990, when I was 17 years old.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Yes I did. Starting in 2005, I went there once or twice a year over a 10‑year period.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
He may have liked China, but the sorts of trips I was making were not the same as the political trips made by politician or heads of state. I was interested in ordinary people, and wandered about in China and saw things that were not ordinarily—