Evidence of meeting #70 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was donation.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:35 p.m.
Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I'm chair of the board. I cannot and must not be involved in every detail of—
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NDP
5:35 p.m.
Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Right.
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NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
That's why you have errors and omissions insurance, to ensure that you're not put in a legal.... You're a lawyer. I can't accept at face value that you don't see why this would be a problem.
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Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I believe I can rely on assurances from others more closely involved as to what has been done and whether what has been done is proper.
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NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Your job is to respond to it.
Ms. Fournier brings allegations.
The last question I have for you regards the concerns that she has purported to this committee that she brought to you directly at the board meeting. What was your course of action after that?
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Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
It was very much to do our best to establish an independent outside review of the entire matter and all the circumstances around it.
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Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
No, it would have been.... I would say that it's well under way—
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Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Johnson.
Mr. Green, I have to stay on time here.
Mr. Berthold, you have the floor for five minutes.
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Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good evening, Mr. Johnson. You said that the foundation has never been influenced by the Beijing regime, correct?
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Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Right, to the best of my knowledge.
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Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
All right. You took the time to clarify that.
In your view, does this $140,000 donation, which has since been repaid by the foundation and which, according to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, had been reimbursed to the donor by the Beijing regime, constitute a prima facie case of attempted interference by the Beijing regime?
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Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
If the allegations were correct, then there would be an arguable case that it was an attempt at influence—if they are correct.
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Conservative
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Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
You can't question them; this is an article that quotes someone quoting a conversation that the Canadian Security Intelligence Service allegedly recorded.
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Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
We saw that a diplomat from the Beijing regime was expelled from Canada, according to the same sources.
According to his own words, it seems that Mr. Rosenberg was naive to foreign interference and this gift from the Beijing regime. For his part, Mr. Alexandre Trudeau said that he had no reason to suspect an interference attempt by the Beijing regime. Do you side with the Rosenberg camp or the Trudeau camp?
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Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
It's neither one nor the other, because I have my own point of view. As I told you, as far as I know, there was no attempt to influence the foundation.
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Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
So, you say there was no attempt to influence the foundation. Do you understand that the regime in Beijing has no interest in trying to influence the foundation, but rather has an interest in influencing Mr. Trudeau's government?
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Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I cannot comment...
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Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
You say that Beijing did not try to influence the foundation, and I understand that the foundation was not the target. However, Mr. Johnson, can you at least admit that the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation, which is named after a former prime minister, one of whose sons, Alexandre, is an active member and whose other son, as everyone knows, is Prime Minister of Canada, can be an interesting target for an authoritarian regime like Beijing or anyone else who wants to exert influence?
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Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I really can't comment on that. I don't—
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Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
You've worked for several Liberal ministers in your career, haven't you?
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Chair of the Board of the Foundation, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Yes.