Information & Ethics Committee on May 9th, 2023

[Edward Johnson]

My sound pickup seems to be a bit sporadic again.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Chair, maybe you could ask the members across the table to be more respectful.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I'll ask the members to keep it down a little bit here.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I just hear chatter.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I've asked the members to keep it down in their conversations.

Go ahead, Ms. Hepfner.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Okay, thank you.

When asked about Beijing consular officials who attended meetings with the foundation to arrange the donation, Mr. Trudeau responded:

I wasn't at any meeting. Maybe there were, on the signing ceremony.

One of the issues that you have to understand is that the donors, Mr. Zhang Bin and Mr. Niu Gensheng, don't speak a word of English. A lot of the time you're thinking that they are using consular officials as basically free and appropriate translation services, as opposed to getting someone who's not trained in that kind of diplomatic translation.

Do you know anything about this, sir? Do you have any input on that statement?

[Edward Johnson]

I'm afraid I don't. I wasn't there.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

When Mr. Alexandre Trudeau was asked about why his signature was needed during those meetings, he responded to Mr. Barrett, I think, saying:

You understand why. I was giving the approval for the Université de Montréal to use the name of my father. I was acting as a family member to say that the Université de Montréal could use the name of Pierre Trudeau to launch a scholarship program.

Since you've been with the foundation since its inception, I wonder if you have any insight into this statement.

[Edward Johnson]

Yes.

I don't know if I can add to what you've said. That was what I heard Alexandre Trudeau say here a few days ago.

As I say, I was not involved at the time in any of the goings on around the donation, so I can't really....

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Does it make sense to you though that this would be the reason?

[Edward Johnson]

Yes, it does.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

That's all the time we have. Thank you, Mr. Johnson and Ms. Hepfner.

We should get back here probably around 5:20 or so. There are 11 minutes left with the bells. We are going to start with Mr. Villemure when we get back.

We have to figure out the time here. I'll figure it out over the vote.

We're going to suspend for votes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I will reconvene the meeting. It's 5:25.

I'm going to give the floor to Mr. Villemure and then Mr. Green for five minutes each. Then we'll start again with the Conservatives, for five minutes, followed by the Liberals, also for five minutes. Finally, there may be two-and‑a‑half-minute rounds.

I've asked for 15 minutes on the committee business, but I think we probably could get through it in 10 minutes.

Mr. Villemure, you have the floor for five minutes.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Johnson, I'm just trying to put the pieces back in the right order. You have eight board members who resigned at the same time as Ms. Fournier, or thereabouts.

[Edward Johnson]

I think there were thirteen or fourteen of them.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

All right, but eight members resigned. Is that correct?

[Edward Johnson]

No. There were 13 or 14 members who resigned on the same day.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

All right. So they resigned at the same time that Ms. Fournier did.

[Edward Johnson]

There was a gap of an hour or two.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

All right. They can't all be wrong. They must have had reasonable cause to resign.

[Edward Johnson]

Yes, I imagine so.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

However, at no time were you told about the reasons. Is that right?

[Edward Johnson]

I can't comment on the motives of all these board members. I have spoken with a few, but not all of them.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Johnson, I have been asking you a few questions from the beginning. You told me that, for example, Mr. Rosenberg said this or that you read this in the Globe and Mail. However, I'd like to know what you think about it.

I understand that you haven't had first-hand conversations with everyone, but you are the chair of the board. You have held important positions in the past and you have an opinion.

[Edward Johnson]

Yes. What do you want my opinion on?