Information & Ethics Committee on May 9th, 2023

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

In that conversation, the donor was instructed by Beijing to make a donation to the Trudeau Foundation for the express purpose of gaining favour or access to the Prime Minister. You're aware of that from the article.

[Edward Johnson]

I'm aware of that allegation. It was also to give $1 million, I believe, according to the newspaper report, to the foundation.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Knowing that now, having read those reports from CSIS in the Globe and Mail article, do you see the red flags for the donation?

[Edward Johnson]

Well, first—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

With the benefit of hindsight.

[Edward Johnson]

In my opening remarks, I mentioned that at no time was there $1 million offered to the foundation.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

The foundation did receive $140,000.

[Edward Johnson]

That's correct.

As for a red flag, when the president and I became aware of that article, we both agreed and subsequently worked with others in the foundation to repay the donation, the $140,000 on the basis of that allegation. Whether or not it was true, it put us in a position that we felt we must repay this money.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

It obviously raised enough concern that CSIS's report was, in fact, correct that you felt compelled to return the donation.

[Edward Johnson]

I can't say whether it was correct.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

But you can say that it was compelling enough that you returned the donation.

[Edward Johnson]

The article in the newspaper raised sufficient concern among us and among others involved in the foundation. We felt that was the appropriate course.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

It raised that concern with me, too.

Were you part of the committee that selected Pascale Fournier as the chief executive officer?

[Edward Johnson]

I was not on the search committee.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Does the Trudeau Foundation have bylaws that address foreign influence?

[Edward Johnson]

No. We have bylaws, but I don't recall anything specific in the bylaws that deals with foreign influence.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

We have a report from CSIS that says the Trudeau Foundation was used as part of a foreign influence operation. We have no mechanisms in place at the foundation to prevent it being used in a foreign influence operation, yet when Mr. Trudeau was here, he said that it was impossible for there to have been a foreign influence operation carried out using the foundation.

How is it possible that he is correct?

[Edward Johnson]

I can't speak for him. My own view is that there has never been an opportunity for a so-called foreign influence operation to influence the foundation.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I think we just discussed the evidence on it, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Johnson and Mr. Barrett.

We're going to Ms. Saks for six minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Johnson, for joining us here today.

I'd like to start with the fact that you're one of the founding members of the foundation. Can you explain why you took on the role of chair of the board of directors in 2021?

[Edward Johnson]

I was asked to chair it. I've been a member since 2002 and involved since 2001. I was involved over a long period of time.

I joined the board in 2011, and the outgoing chair and, I gather, a number of members of the board of directors asked if I would take on the chair.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

As a founding member of the foundation, what was the initial mandate? Maybe you could speak to that and how its operations have evolved and carried through the past 22 years of work the foundation has done in terms of supporting scholars.

[Edward Johnson]

I should add that I'm having difficulty picking up the floor feed, but I can hear it well enough without my earphones.

We operate under a funding agreement from the Government of Canada, which is overseen by the ISED department, the innovation department. That sets out pretty strict parameters on our program. The requirements for our program require that we do scholarships, mentorships, fellowships and a public interaction program. We provide the scholars with opportunities to move outside their narrow fields of study and become exposed to other aspects of Canada and the world, from meeting senior people in government to going abroad and meeting people abroad.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you for that.

Just to clarify, when the foundation was formed through ISED, as you mentioned, did all political parties support the creation of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation?