Evidence of meeting #71 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was privacy.
A video is available from Parliament.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
No, far from it.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Okay. The previous review should've happened five years ago, is that right?
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Understood.
There's been talk in Parliament recently of the merits of creating a foreign agent registry. I imagine that the creation of such a registry might benefit from your experience. Could you share your thoughts on that?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Of course.
I will always support any endeavour that promotes transparency. It would be a good thing. That said, in my experience with the registry of lobbyists, in order for a foreign agent registry to be effective, its objectives will need to be clear. I don't know what a foreign agent registry would look like, but I do know that its criteria and parameters will need to be clear and that it should include no threshold, because it's too easy to remain under the threshold. What's more, enforcement powers will need to be provided for. If we're unable to enforce the act and the registry, it won't do much good.
There will definitely be some overlap with the Lobbying Act and the registry of lobbyists, and I'll keep a close eye on that. It is possible that some people will have to register with both registries, which is fine.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Might it be relevant to consider consolidating these registries under a single authority? The activities in question, namely contact with foreign agents or contact with lobbyists, are similar.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Indeed, these communications are similar, but we will need to ensure that the foreign agent registry not include all communications with Canadian citizens, because these activities don't constitute lobbying.
The Lobbying Act recognizes lobbying as a legitimate activity. We will need to carefully define the objectives and the purpose of the foreign agent registry. If both that registry and the registry of lobbyists were to fall under a single authority, there's no doubt that this authority should have the power to carry out investigations outside of Canada. I can tell you that I don't have that authority and that I certainly don't have the staff to carry out such activities.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
I don't doubt that.
Let's move on to budgetary independence. Like the other commissioners, you're independently appointed by Parliament. As such, you're independent in terms of your appointment. That said, do you also have budgetary independence?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Absolutely.
I've been working with officers of Parliament since 2007 or 2008, so it's a conversation we've been having for a long time. Over 20 years ago now, this very committee stated that we should have budgetary independence, and I completely agree.
I'm very happy to have received funds, but I didn't get what I'd asked for. So the answer is yes.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Several. We have about 28 staff members, but we should have 33. With the funds I'll be receiving, I'll be able to hire four more employees, at which point we'll be 37. I currently don't have much of a choice, since our staffing pool is quite shallow, meaning that I have one staff per position, but no backups. We're trying to fill the vacancies, but it's tough these days.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
So you have financial difficulties and staffing issues, obviously, all of which force you to make choices you wouldn't necessarily be making if you were independent.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Absolutely.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Villemure and Ms. Bélanger.
Mr. Green, you have six minutes. Go ahead, please.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
The Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying has published six investigation reports since 2017. The latest one was in 2021.
Do the financial resources of the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying have an impact on the number of investigations it conducts?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Here's what I'll say. The resources I have do not impact on how many I conduct. It's the speed—the efficiency—that is not as fast as I would like.
However, we look at everything. I have never been resource-oriented. I make sure we look at all the files. Obviously, if we had more people, we could probably turn them around a little faster.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
The departmental plan states that in 2022 your office identified “depth of capacity” as the primary risk for your organization. Can you expand on this risk?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Absolutely.
We have a pretty big mandate—the registry, education and compliance. Up until that budget in 2021, the budget had not changed since 2008. It's always been 28 employees.
The number of lobbyists, and therefore the number of calls our office gets, keeps going up. The number of investigations and the compliance work keep going up. The corporate demands coming from the centre keep going up. There are all sorts of reports and plans that we need to do, and we have always been at 28 employees.
We commissioned an outside firm to look at our office, and yes, the capacity is a problem. When somebody goes away, the files stay on their desk, because I have no backup. There is no backup in policy, communications or any position. It's hard, but my goodness, I have employees who believe in what they do, and they're willing to do more than their job description. That's a good thing, because they otherwise wouldn't survive in an office of 28 with the mandate we have.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I might suggest, as a guy who's pretty supportive of unions, that their collective bargaining work be protected with adequate compensation and adequate scope of their roles.
You submitted a budget proposal to the government to add seven full-time positions. What responsibilities and operations would these seven full-time staff members undertake?