Evidence of meeting #91 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Douglas McConnachie  Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector, Department of Industry
Annette Verschuren  Chair, Board of Directors, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Leah Lawrence  President and Chief Executive Officer, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Sheryl Urie  Vice-President, Finance, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Brassard

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 91 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, October 18, 2023, the committee is commencing its study of allegations related to governance and management of contributions by Sustainable Development Technology Canada.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room. We don't have any members remotely on the Zoom application.

I have a couple of important reminders.

I would like to remind all members and witnesses that care must be taken with regard to the earpieces for interpretation. Please be mindful to not place your earpiece near the microphone, as this can result in a feedback loop, which may cause an acoustic shock, which could in turn cause injury to the interpreters.

Before we begin, Mr. Villemure would like to say something.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to make this statement at the beginning of the meeting. We're here to debate ideas, but we must be careful not to turn the debate into a fight. I appeal to everyone to show a little more restraint and respect, and to avoid personal attacks, because that doesn't advance the committee's objective at all.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Brassard

Thank you for your fine words, Mr. Villemure.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses today.

From the Department of Industry, we have Douglas McConnachie, assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer, corporate management sector.

Welcome, Mr. McConnachie.

From Sustainable Development Technology Canada, we have Leah Lawrence, president and chief executive officer; Annette Verschuren, chair, board of directors; and Sheryl Urie, vice-president, finance.

Mr. McConnachie, you have five minutes to address the committee. Please go ahead, sir.

4:30 p.m.

Douglas McConnachie Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector, Department of Industry

Mr. Chair, honourable members and officials, my name is Douglas McConnachie. I'm the CFO and assistant deputy minister of corporate management at ISED. I am grateful to have this opportunity to contextualize the remarks that were attributed to me in recent media reports related to Sustainable Development Technology Canada, or SDTC.

Mr. Chair, the allegations that were made against SDTC are very serious. However, it is important to note that the confidential file prepared by the complainant did not contain clear evidence of wrongdoing or misconduct, in spite of its impressive size. Due process demanded that we address the complaint expeditiously and in confidence, both to protect the complainant from reprisal and to ensure that the reputations of the SDTC board and executive were not unfairly besmirched. ISED decided to undertake a fact-finding exercise to determine whether the allegations had merit and whether there was a factual basis upon which to take further action.

Between March 17 and September 29, I met with the complainant 24 times, representing more than 30 hours of conversation. My objective in these meetings was to be as transparent as possible about how ISED was managing the complaint and to provide timely updates on the status of the fact-finding exercise. I wanted the complainant to understand that ISED was taking the complaint seriously, and to build his confidence in the integrity of the process. I also wanted the complainant to have trust in my neutrality, since none of the allegations implicated me as an individual.

By the midpoint of the exercise, it became apparent that the complainant either did not understand or did not agree with the methodology and approach being used by Raymond Chabot Grant Thornton, or RCGT. He was not satisfied with allowing RCGT to independently validate his allegations on the basis of objective facts. The complainant stated his opinion that RCGT was overly reliant upon documentation provided by SDTC, and he requested follow-up interviews to walk through documentation he possessed. Since the provenance of this information could not be authenticated, RCGT rightly pushed back against these requests.

As the preliminary findings started to come in, I advised the complainant that facts had been found to support some of the allegations. These included inconsistencies and opportunities for improvement in the application of general governance and conflict of interest practices, compliance with the contribution agreement and certain human resources practices.

Mr. Chair, I was surprised and disappointed to uncover these types of issues in a mature organization with a highly experienced board and executive. In my opinion, these issues do not meet the standards of the public service. However, none of these issues rose to the standard of wrongdoing or misconduct, and they did not support taking formal action against individuals.

The complainant was visibly upset that the facts were not aligning with the narrative of his complaint. He repeatedly stated it would be a great injustice if the SDTC board and executive were allowed to continue to serve in their roles, and they could not be trusted to remediate the issues that had been identified.

During our meetings in August and September, the complainant repeatedly pressured me for details of any findings that would implicate the SDTC board and executive. I was hammered with questions on what actions the government might take to replace or dismiss individuals. I was asked over and over to speculate on the different ways in which the government might take action. In retrospect, I should have ended my meetings with the complainant at this point, but I still thought I could de-escalate the situation.

In order to mollify the complainant, I speculated that the results of the fact-finding exercise could give rise to an expanded investigation by ISED, the Auditor General or other third parties. I speculated that the government might question its confidence in the board and whether it was tenable for them to continue to serve. I further speculated that the government might decide to reorganize or wind down SDTC, and that this could have an undesirable impact on employees and stakeholders. At the same time, I made it very clear to the complainant that these decisions were exclusively within the purview of the government, and that I would almost certainly not be involved in nor asked to advise on any process requiring decisions by the Governor in Council.

Since it has come to light that our conversations were recorded without my knowledge, I can see I was baited into making these speculative and inappropriate remarks. Recent media reports have selectively excerpted and sequenced a few minutes from over 30 hours of conversation in order to advance the false narrative that there was a consensus within ISED that the SDTC board and executive should be terminated. However, the timeline clearly illustrates that my comments were made before the RCGT report was received and well before I briefed the deputy minister and other officials. The media reports also suggest the minister's response to the findings does not align with my advice. This is simply not the case.

Mr. Chair, it is important to note that I directly oversaw the engagement with RCGT until its conclusion, I authored the management response and action plan to address the issues identified in the report and I drafted the briefing note in collaboration with other ISED officials to generate advice for the minister. I stand by this advice and I feel strongly that the minister's response was justified and proportionate.

In summary, I was extremely naive to expect that my good faith conversations with the complainant would remain private. I never expected my remarks to be used out of context to reinforce a narrative that is not supported by independently verified facts. I was too transparent, too trusting, and I deeply regret any impact that this has had on the government, SDTC and ISED.

Mr. Chair, I would be pleased to take your questions at this time.

Thank you.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Brassard

Thank you, Mr. McConnachie.

I understand that there's shared time between SDTC members.

Are you going to start, Ms. Verschuren? Please go ahead for five minutes to address the committee.

4:35 p.m.

Annette Verschuren Chair, Board of Directors, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon, honourable members.

I am proud of my track record in leading major transformational companies that create jobs and opportunities for Canadians. I am particularly proud of my role as chair of SDTC, joined by my two strong female leaders.

SDTC provides funding to Canadian entrepreneurs developing and deploying innovative sustainable technologies. We have 229 companies in our portfolio today, representing every province in our country. StatsCan data shows that our companies regularly outperform other small and medium-sized businesses. Every dollar SDTC invested since 2001 has resulted in more than $7 in follow-on financing from the public and private sectors—7:1.

The allegations made by this small group of former employees are false, and we are here today to set the record straight.

I have the privilege of sitting on the board with 14 other senior private sector leaders who have deep expertise on governance, operations and delivering real results. On behalf of the board, let me tell you this is one of the best-run organizations that we have ever been part of.

The former employees raised their concerns with us earlier this year before the ISED fact-finding exercise even started. We took it very seriously. We convened a special committee and hired a top law firm, Osler, to do a thorough investigation to get to the bottom of it. No evidence was found to support the allegations.

Let's compare this with the RCGT process. Whereas Osler conducted 23 hours of interviews, board directors interviews with RCGT were as short as 15 minutes. What's more, important documentation that was provided to RCGT was not reflected in the report.

The result is a report that contains numerous errors, and misrepresentations of our policies and procedures. We tried to raise these issues with both the RCGT consultant and the CFO at the time. We have since shared the full list of the mistakes with the department and have now tabled it with this committee.

I will now turn things over to SDTC's CEO, Leah Lawrence.

4:40 p.m.

Leah Lawrence President and Chief Executive Officer, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Thank you, Ms. Verschuren.

Thank you for the opportunity to shed some light today on the facts at hand.

I was hired by the board of directors in June 2015 with a mandate to change. I was asked to modernize SDTC to meet the accelerating pace of innovation in Canada and globally. I was asked to make funding processes and procedures more company and client-sector focused. I was asked to reduce operating expenses to ensure a more nimble, effective and efficient use of public funds.

Therefore, I built a leadership team that started transforming the organization. We zeroed in on small and medium-sized companies. We struck deep relationships with major public and Crown funders across the entire country. We worked with them to reduce barriers for entrepreneurs to access the support they needed to succeed.

We brought in new talent and skills, people with deep experience in entrepreneurship, innovation, finance, and market adoption.

In March 2023, ISED's evaluation branch completed a five-year review of SDTC. That report, which has not yet been released, made these observations: it commended our diversity of funding streams and flexibility; it recognized our trail blazing streams of funding from seed, to start-up to scale-up; and it commended our low overhead—down substantially and far below comparable federal bodies. Let me give you an example. It used to take 12 to 18 months for an entrepreneur to go through our processes, and now, with increased rigour, it takes four to six months.

Our operating expenses went from being 20% over budget to being under budget. We successfully created a performance-driven culture made up of professionals who are great at what they do.

We are now the biggest funder of Canadian clean-tech businesses, bringing made-in-Canada innovation to market, because Canada can and should be a market leader in the green economy, with SDTC-supported companies like Hifi, Eavor and Saltworks leading the way.

I want to thank my leaders and every member of the SDTC team for their steadfast professionalism and dedication.

Our organization has played by the rules, improved the rules, and achieved results for Canadians. My leaders have acted ethically at all times. I stand behind our track record. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of the companies we've helped to succeed.

I very much welcome your questions.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Brassard

Thank you, Ms. Lawrence and Ms. Verschuren.

We're going to start with our first six-minute rounds. We're going to go to Mr. Barrett. To save some time, I like direct action of a witness responding to a member, although I know that in previous committee hearings you probably went through the chair.

Mr. Barrett, you have six minutes. Go ahead, please.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. McConnachie, on what date did you learn about the whistle-blower complaints?

4:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector, Department of Industry

Douglas McConnachie

Mr. Chair, thank you for the question.

I'll give you the exact date. On February 16, ISED received the confidential file from PCO.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

When did you learn of the RCGT report findings?

4:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector, Department of Industry

Douglas McConnachie

Mr. Chair, the first working draft of the document we requested was delivered on September 8. That was a hastened version that hadn't been through their quality control process, because we were having internal discussions about the matter.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

When was the RCGT report commissioned?

4:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector, Department of Industry

Douglas McConnachie

The contract was issued on March 17.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

And you hadn't seen an initial draft in May?

4:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector, Department of Industry

Douglas McConnachie

In May, we received an interim brief from RCGT with a draft report that frankly was not acceptable to us. It had language that was not helpful, and as a result of that we decided to dig deeper and conduct additional procedures.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

That's a bit different from September, but thank you for the precision.

When was the minister made aware of the RCGT findings?

4:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector, Department of Industry

Douglas McConnachie

I do not have the date on which the deputy minister communicated with the minister, but I do know that the briefing note was signed by the deputy minister on September 27.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

So the deputy minister was going to brief the minister on findings imminently on June 7. Did that happen or not?

4:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector, Department of Industry

Douglas McConnachie

I don't have any awareness of that.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

I'm going to offer a series of quotes. They're from you. This one in context is, “The deputy's lining up a discussion with the minister imminently to take the pulse.”

That was on June 7. So that didn't happen?

4:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector, Department of Industry

Douglas McConnachie

I don't know if it did or not. It's possible that was an action that was being proposed at the time, but I can't speak for the deputy or the minister.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

I have a quote from you. It says:It's unlikely that certain members of the board, or the entire board, and executives are going to be able to continue to serve. Like they've kind of lost the confidence. So really, the discussion will be the mechanisms for getting them out.

Then you said:The minister is going to flip out when he hears the stuff and he's going to want an extreme reaction, like shut it all down.

What changed the minister's mind and gave him confidence in the board?

4:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector, Department of Industry

Douglas McConnachie

Those remarks were made in the August-early September time frame, well before the minister had ever been briefed. As indicated in my opening remarks, it was speculation on my part. It was inappropriate. I regret the remarks, but I do think on the notion of the minister flipping out, it is normal for any senior official or minister, for that matter, to react strongly when we have some findings through an exercise.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

I want to take a step back to the timeline again. You said the minister was going to be briefed on June 7.