Evidence of meeting #40 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was requests.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's all there is to it. It doesn't change the system. Obviously, if there is an appearance of a conflict—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Commissioner, the time is up. Thank you.
Ms. Lapointe, I'm giving you a little over five minutes to ask your questions.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Good evening, everyone.
Thank you, Commissioner and ladies, for being with us today.
Commissioner, I'm sure you're aware that we tabled a report not too long ago. You also know that we have a dissenting opinion. Based on the testimony of Michael Sabia, the top public servant, and Marc-André Blanchard, the chief of staff to the Prime Minister, you agree that conflict of interest investigations are working well.
Do you still agree with that assessment?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Liberal
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
In general, it works well. Obviously, every system can be improved or can be more efficient, but, in general, I believe we have a system that works and meets the challenge of building trust in government.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
I have another question.
One of the recommendations we put forward was this:
That the Government of Canada amend section 15 of the Conflict of Interest Act to grant the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner discretion to authorize reporting public office holders to engage in outside activities such as teaching, non-profit or charitable activities, where the Commissioner determines that no conflict of interest would arise.
Following what you said earlier to MP Bonin, can you speak to this recommendation and tell us whether you think it's a good idea?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, I mentioned that recommendation in my report because this is a situation that happens quite often. A person subject to the act may have knowledge or expertise that they want to share at a school, university or any other similar institution. However, I have to tell them that it's not allowed, even if there is no conflict of interest. That's because, in general, under the employer's mechanism in place, the person must be an employee or have a contract, something like that.
Obviously, if I had the authority to authorize something like that, it would have to be done on a volunteer basis—that is, without compensation. I believe that many people in government or in Parliament have knowledge they want to share, and we need to find a way to make it easier for them to do so.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you.
I would like to come back to the recent report. I know that my colleague touched on the subject a little earlier.
Do you agree that it is important to encourage qualified individuals to run for public office and to facilitate exchanges between the public and private sectors?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Are you recommending that it be abolished?
No, I disagree. As I explained, I think this is an issue that affects the entire act system. It's a matter of balancing two different objectives: the absence of conflict of interest and the hiring of the most qualified people in government.
I believe this balance is working quite well right now, and I don't want this entire provision in the act to be changed. It has to be a goal. That has to be a goal. We want the most qualified people to work in government.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you.
I'd like to ask you a more specific question about the committee's report. What would be the concrete impact on your organization if the committee's recommendations regarding the Conflict of Interest Act were adopted?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It really depends on the provisions and how it would be expressed in the act. As you say, would apparent conflicts of interest be recognized? Would we also have the power to adopt regulations? Would there be more precise definitions? What powers would I have, as commissioner, in this regard?
So I would like to see the specific changes before I comment on them. Obviously, this will make our work more difficult, but, on the other hand, it will strengthen public trust.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Commissioner and Ms. Lapointe.
Mr. Bonin, you have the floor for five minutes.
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Mr. Chair, thank you for your co-operation.
Commissioner, do you think the government should proceed quickly and introduce a reform of the act?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, certainly with respect to the five points I raised in my annual report. I would like to see this proceed fairly quickly.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Do you currently consider that you need additional funding to increase transparency, strengthen ethics, minimize conflicts of interest and increase public trust in the government?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
As I said, I think the system is working well for now, but it can be improved.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
How do you compare Canada to other OECD or G7 countries in terms of the scope and clarity of the rules and the effectiveness of the Conflict of Interest Act?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
You have heard all the witnesses who have appeared here. Generally, Canada is seen an example to follow. We have an act that works and we have avoided major scandals. In general, the purpose of the act is to have a preventive system. As soon as someone is elected or appointed, they must declare all their conflicts of interest. We review them, and then we tell those people what is and isn't allowed. They are subject to a code, and our office can also give them advice if certain situations arise.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
I would really like to hear a comparison. Are there examples in other countries?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
In our country, we have other concepts and two organizations that deal with this issue. There are other ways to tell an elected official like you that your situation may raise a conflict of interest, but that it's up to you to decide and that I won't do it on your behalf, since my role is limited to explaining it to you, and it is the voters who will make the decision. That's our approach. For us, it's basically a preventative system.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
I'll come back to the question I asked in the previous round.
I gave the example of someone who is employed directly by the Major Projects Office, the government's new creation. You're telling me that this person is not subject to the Conflict of Interest Act. Is that correct? I'm not sure I understood your answer.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Who are you talking about? Are you talking about the main person in charge or about the employees?
Bloc