Evidence of meeting #45 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transparency.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Executive Director, Policy, Planning and Performance, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I know this is one of the recommendations the commissioner has put forward. Other agents of Parliament have immunity in certain respects, and this should definitely be considered as we're looking to renew the act.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Bonin.
Mr. Cooper, you have five minutes. Go ahead.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Ross and Mr. Gear, for your testimony.
Has the Treasury Board Secretariat undertaken an analysis of the recommendations and changes proposed by the lobbying commissioner?
Executive Director, Policy, Planning and Performance, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
We're undertaking that analysis now, and it's ongoing.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
The review is scheduled to take place sometime in the fall. Is that the plan, to commence—
Executive Director, Policy, Planning and Performance, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Do you mean the regulatory review?
Executive Director, Policy, Planning and Performance, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
As I said, we had initially planned to conduct a review of the regulations, and we announced that as part of the 60-day red tape review in early September 2025. I think it was a couple of weeks later that the committee adopted the motion to start the statutory review of the act, so we put a pause on the regulatory review until we have completed this review and have made some decisions in terms of whether any changes are required to the legislation or the regulations as a result of the review.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Do you have a timeline for when the review will be completed?
Executive Director, Policy, Planning and Performance, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I don't have that timeline for you right now.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Why was it necessary to suspend or halt the commencement of the review until this committee did its work? Why not begin the process in parallel?
Executive Director, Policy, Planning and Performance, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I think it was important that we didn't go too far down the road of looking at regulatory changes when we didn't know what exactly was going to come out of this review.
We definitely look forward to hearing what the committee wants to suggest and then allowing the government to make a decision on how it would like to proceed with respect to those recommendations.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
In my view, changes are required to strengthen the act. The lobbying commissioner, for years, has been highlighting gaps with respect to transparency in terms of what is not covered. It seems that the longer this goes on, the longer the government will drag its feet and not take up, frankly, much-needed changes to the act to update it, which, as you note, is now nearly 20 years old. A lot has changed in that time.
When it comes to the administrative burden, from the standpoint of those who register, who are lobbyists, the commissioner takes a very different view of it insofar as she notes that it takes 20 minutes to fill out the form and five minutes to submit it. Perhaps that is generous. Perhaps it is more burdensome than that.
When you look at, for example, registration, the percentage of late registrations is quite low, which would indicate that it's not all that difficult for lobbyists to register in compliance with the act. Is that fair?
Executive Director, Policy, Planning and Performance, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I know the commissioner has expressed her view of how long it would take to fulfill a specific transaction in terms of a specific report, and I think she indicated in numerous instances that it would only take a few minutes.
What I think is important, though, if we are considering changes to the act, is that some of the ones proposed by the commissioner would expand not only obligations on lobbyists themselves but also the population of designated public office holders, the type of information that would be required to be reported, etc., so it would be very important to look at the cumulative impact of any changes that we decide to go forward with and see what the impact would be on all those in the lobbyist population, including small business owners, executive members, volunteers of associations, etc.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Cooper.
Mr. Chang is next for five minutes.
Go ahead, sir.
Liberal
Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, officials, for being here.
How does Canada's lobbying regime compare to those of other leading democracies in terms of transparency, oversight and administrative requirements?
Executive Director, Policy, Planning and Performance, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
As I said, I'm glad that the OECD was happy to appear before the committee and share the observations that they made as part of their study of Canada's integrity regime. I'm glad that they were also able to make comments specifically about the Lobbying Act and the regime that's in place for lobbyists, in which they did say that we compare relatively well with the other jurisdictions they studied around the world.
We have a very comprehensive regime wherein we include in-house lobbyists and consultant lobbyists. We have stringent penalties for contraventions of the act, with criminal sanctions of $200,000 or up to two years in prison, for example. There are very severe penalties for contraventions. We also have very strong post-employment obligations that are embedded in the act to make sure that public office holders are not using their position to benefit themselves in terms of post-public life career opportunities.
Overall, Canada has been recognized worldwide as a leader. Are there opportunities for improvement? Absolutely. As Mr. Cooper has pointed out, the act is almost 20 years old now without having been modified. There is definitely an opportunity to look at it and see how we can modernize it, but overall, I think it is recognized worldwide as a pretty strong regime.
Liberal
Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC
We have heard concerns that some recent proposals or interpretations might not have involved extensive consultation with stakeholders. To your knowledge, what stakeholder engagement informed the commissioner's recommendations, and what role, if any, did the Treasury Board play in these discussions?
Executive Director, Policy, Planning and Performance, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'll answer the last part of your question first.
Again, our role is relatively limited. We jump into action as required whenever the minister gets involved. We don't have a lot of frontline experience in this regard or interaction with different stakeholders, so there's not much we would add to the process.
In terms of the consultation that the commissioner has done herself, you'd have to ask her and her office about what they have done.
Liberal
Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC
How important are predictability and regulatory certainty for organizations that must comply with this act? How should they factor in any reforms recommended by this committee?
Executive Director, Policy, Planning and Performance, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'm sure any business would tell you that regulatory certainty is critical, particularly for small and medium-sized enterprises. The burden complaints regarding regulatory red tape and government red tape in general have been quite prevalent, so anything we can do to try to simplify and stabilize the regime for the population would be quite helpful.
Liberal
Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC
The Lobbying Act seeks to promote transparency, not discourage engagement with government. How can Parliament ensure that reforms do not unintentionally create barriers to participation in public policy discussions?
Peter Ross Director, Policy, Planning and Liaison, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
In terms of not impeding things, it's really important that we take into account how the law can apply to different groups. Yes, we want to make sure there's transparency, but at the same time, it's really important that we take into account that it can apply to many different types of organizations. You have the consultant lobbyists who are professional and full-time, but it can also apply to major corporations with in-house lobbyists, or it can apply to small businesses or not-for-profit organizations, like sporting organizations and such. All those need to be taken into account, along with thinking about the appropriate balance between accessibility and transparency and the burden that is puts on organizations.