Evidence of meeting #47 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was screen.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
At that point, a conflict of interest screen would be applied, and a line would have to be drawn to say to be careful, since the person is making decisions that will indirectly affect their family. It would no longer be a matter of general application.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Obviously, if there is a conflict of interest, the general application rule does not apply. The rule applies in situations where you do something general that may have impacts on your spouse or family, in particular. However, it has the same effect for everyone. For that reason—
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
I understand the concept. Earlier, you said that—I took careful note of this—that if it's in the person's own interest, in the interest of a friend or spouse, or in the interest of any individual with whom that person has a connection, there's a problem, and they have to set up a conflict of interest screen or another measure.
In this case, I'm trying to understand how many steps it would take to say whether or not there's a conflict of interest. As part of the act, the Minister of Finance tabled his budget, in which he granted accelerated powers to a major project in which his wife is involved. The justification given is that the project falls under the Minister of Transport's responsibility and that there is no direct connection. However, we can see that this project is paying performance bonuses to its directors. At that point, things start to get very close. How much more would it take to say that there's a problem? If even that isn't a problem and there is no conflict of interest, I feel like, ultimately, we can do just about anything. General application becomes quite broad.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Listen, you're well aware that the Minister of Finance has a big portfolio. Everything that's done and the decisions that are made have an impact on the entire government's budget.
At that point, there will obviously be impacts on many people, including—
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
There's ultimately nothing that can be a problem.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's why I'm talking [Inaudible—Editor]. What is the connection between one and the other? If you can explain or show a direct link between the—
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
That's my question to you. I just want to question the whole thing. We're talking about general application. I understand that the Minister of Finance is going to make plenty of decisions for the country. Basically, virtually nothing can be held against him because, every time, he will be able to say that he put it in the budget and that it's ultimately for everyone.
At a certain point, how can we enable Canadians to be confident that an independent commissioner is in place and ensuring that this kind of ethical issue never happens with current ministers?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Hardy.
Please answer quickly, Commissioner, if you can.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No. The act sets out the concept of general application. It's there in the act. It's my job to interpret and apply it.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
We can have various opinions on a specific case, but the rule exists, and we have to apply it honestly to assure the public that there aren't conflicts of interest.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you.
As in the last hour, I'm going to give two and a half minutes to Mr. Bonin, and we'll then wrap up with Ms. Lapointe, who will have five minutes.
Mr. Bonin, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Commissioner, earlier, the minister said that he had put a screen in place to ensure that there was no conflict of interest. You have the power to make that screen public, right? You could make it public.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
If I'm asked to, yes.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
As commissioner, you can do so if asked, but can you make that screen public without being asked?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I'm going to ask Mr. Aquilino to answer your question.
Legal Counsel, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
The commissioner is bound by the requirements of the act. Unless the act expressly requires it, any information provided to us remains confidential.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
That isn't what I understood earlier.
You're telling me that he doesn't have the capacity to make that screen public.
Legal Counsel, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Unless it's required by the act or permitted by the act, that information remains confidential.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Section 51(1) says that I can make many specific documents public, including “any other documents that the Commissioner considers appropriate”.