Information & Ethics Committee on June 15th, 2026

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, I will have to dismiss Mr. Harvey because he has a commitment at five o'clock, and then you can continue with your intervention.

Mr. Hanley, unfortunately, I do understand that you have a commitment at five o'clock that you have to be at, so I'm going to dismiss you at this point, but I would invite you, sir, to provide a brief to the committee. Otherwise, since we are going to continue this study in September, I can invite you back if you like.

Go ahead on a point of order, Ms. Chagger.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Can we just hear from the witness how long he actually can stay? I do have questions that I would like respected.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay. My understanding was that the witness could stay five o'clock.

[Dylan Hanley]

I'm supposed to be on a call at five o'clock. If I need to be 10 or 15 minutes late, I could be.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay. That's fine. I'll give you that option.

Thank you.

Go on, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Hold on a second.

There's a point of order from Mr. Al Soud.

[Fares Al Soud, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I wonder if we might seek unanimous consent to go through a round of questions, out of respect for our witness, who maybe has another 10 minutes, and then we can resume debate for as long as Mr. Barsalou-Duval would like.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

He has the floor right now. If there is unanimous consent among the committee members, I guess we can go through one round.

It's up to you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I don't have any objection, Mr. Chair, provided I don't lose my turn. I think this is an important topic, and the committee should address it.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

As long as the understanding is that Mr. Barsalou-Duval will have the floor when we return, I'm going to accept that.

Mr. Hanley, are you good with that?

That will give us about 12 and a half more minutes, if that's okay.

Do I have unanimous consent for the proposal by Mr. Al Soud?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you.

On the list, I have Mr. Cooper, followed by Ms. Chagger and

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval can have two and a half minutes after Ms. Chagger if he wishes.

Mr. Cooper, go ahead, please.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Hanley.

I certainly concur with your position on sponsored travel and agree that what is key is transparency and public disclosure. With that said, is it your position that the disclosure requirements that were in place before the lobbying commissioner effectively issued guidance around sponsored travel were sufficient?

[Dylan Hanley]

We certainly think they were robust. We reported on the MP who was being sponsored and the cost of the trip that they were taking. We think that was robust. Again, under the registry, any time we're communicating with a designated public office holder, we're also reporting it. If you had come on a delegation with us and suddenly we had 600 communications back and forth, that would be out there and would be transparent for people to see.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

That was one of the concerns that the lobbying commissioner had expressed what she characterized as a transparency gap insofar as lobbyists are not required to disclose if in fact they're engaging in lobbying while parliamentarians are on these types of delegations.

[Dylan Hanley]

Sure. I think that when you're talking about any of these measures, again, it's risk mitigation. There's no way to get to zero risk. I think that, for us, we believe that the previous regime was the right balance. Again, these are structured, transparent and non-partisan programs.

We're not advocating for funding, generally. This year, in the face of a massive wave of anti-Semitism, was an exception to that rule. We think it's a bit of a solution in search of a problem.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

The other concern in line with what the lobbying commissioner characterized as a transparency gap was that there was no requirement for lobbyists to declare that they had previously hosted a parliamentarian on a sponsored trip and then thereafter lobbied them. Is that something that should be closed, or do you not see it as a gap in transparency?

[Dylan Hanley]

I think it's a matter of public record—who has gone on a sponsored trip and then who has been lobbied thereafter.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

What do you say in response to the commissioner's overriding position, which is that sponsored travel reasonably creates an expectation or a sense of obligation?

[Dylan Hanley]

Again, we disagree.

We take great care and pains to put together structured, transparent, non-partisan programs. There are no conditions attached and no expectations of alignment. All subsequent engagements are already governed by the Lobbying Act and reporting requirements. The issue here isn't influence; it's whether parliamentarians are allowed to access high-quality information and experience that help them do their jobs.

Again, the will of Parliament has been to say that they would like to have that. I think that is the central issue we're looking at here, which is the framework overriding the will of Parliament.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

How many delegations of parliamentarians did CIJA sponsor on an annual basis, on average? How many parliamentarians would participate?

[Dylan Hanley]

I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head. I worked there many years ago. I've only been back with CIJA for about seven months.

My guess is that it was a few trips a year, with eight to 12 individuals.

We can get you a more specific answer, if you like.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

Okay.

Now it's zero.

[Dylan Hanley]

Now it's zero. This is one of the considerations.

Also, there's been an ongoing series of wars over the last few years that have made it very difficult to travel.