Evidence of meeting #2 for Subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Finance on Bill C-38 in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was environmental.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you. I got enough of an answer there. That's good.
Mr. Meisenheimer, you gave the example of the Detroit River and the fact that it was dynamited to provide for navigation, to move things along. Did those spawning grounds ever recover? Do you see that kind of thing being possible again under the changes being proposed?
Executive Director, Ontario Commercial Fisheries' Association
It's a century later and we're still waiting. Those spawning grounds don't exist anymore. They were completely wiped out. They were the principal spawning grounds for those fish in that lake.
NDP
Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Mr. Rees, if we had the opportunity, if the government agreed with us that the changes to the Fisheries Act, for example, were of sufficient concern—I think you've helped Mr. Kamp understand some of the implications of these changes—would you be in favour of the changes to the Fisheries Act being split out and going to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans? Do you think that would be helpful?
Executive Director, Federation of Ontario Cottagers' Associations
Absolutely. It's essential.
NDP
Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Finally, I would like to ask you to explain a bit more about the change in terms of why the death of a fish is such a concern when it comes to the integrated ecosystem as it relates to the fisheries.
Executive Director, Federation of Ontario Cottagers' Associations
As I think Mr. Meisenheimer said, fish are a little out of sight, out of mind, so what happens under the water is really a bit of a mystery. Maintaining the conditions that allow them to thrive is indicative of the kinds of environmental conditions we all want to enjoy and see for our children. I think that preserving the conditions for fish allow communities to know that their ecosystems are thriving. We rely on that same water for our agriculture, our industry, and our drinking water, so in all cases, if you're protecting the fishery, you can be sure you're protecting other elements as well.
Executive Director, Ontario Commercial Fisheries' Association
When you say “the killing of fish”, you're referring to the definition of serious harm? I don't think you can possibly say beforehand in most instances what will or will not significantly harm a fishery. You can do things to assist an ecosystem that supports a fishery that absolutely nobody would predict would have deleterious effects. It doesn't happen very often, but it does sometimes happen that only with the wisdom of hindsight do you realize what happened.
Nonetheless, you can take a risk-based approach to these sorts of things. Uncertainty is king in fisheries management. If you don't have a system that's built around an admission of that, and tools for handling it in an open and transparent fashion, with some realistic limits put on it, you don't have a system that does the job, or can possibly be expected to.
Conservative
Executive Director, Ontario Commercial Fisheries' Association
Mr. Chair, I'm probably going to have to skip out now. I have a plane to catch.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins
Oh, by all means.
On behalf of the committee, thank you very much for attending.
If you send me the address, I'll see what I can do about the flowers.
Executive Director, Ontario Commercial Fisheries' Association
I'll be sure to do that.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Myers, you talked in your presentation about Canadians having world-class manufacturing, world-class resource development, and world-class environmental stewardship. I'm just wondering, do you see any reason why this bill limits any of those three?
President and CEO, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters - Ontario Division
No, I don't. In fact, I think what the bill does, by setting some timelines, by setting out a process that can actually be understood and that eliminates the duplication and the unnecessary uncertainty and time delays that are built into approval processes right now, is that is does not prejudge the outcome. It's simply to improve the process here.
If anything, the economist in me says that if we can make rules simple to understand and less expensive to comply with, and have a process that is speedy and that meets time requirements, then you will get better compliance.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Thank you.
Ms. Carpenter, in your presentation you talked about your support for these changes. From your perspective, how does a more efficient regulatory system promote growth in your industry? How do you see that working out in the future?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Nuclear Association
As a market develops—and in our industry, it's a growth model at this point in time—certainty is what we need. It's the same with any other project, and it's the same thing Mr. Collyer said: it's a risk management process, and certainty in the regulatory environment is very important to that.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Okay.
Mr. Collyer, you talked about the main frustrations you see in the present system, but I'm just wondering if you can talk a little bit about how you see some of these solutions working. Ms. Carpenter has also referred to the one project, one review, and I think all of us think that will be a great improvement.
You talked about the consolidation of review bodies. I'm just wondering if you can talk a little bit about how that will improve the regulatory process, from your perspective.
President, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
I think that one is fairly straightforward. Rather than having a multitude of departments or agencies involved in the review process, single-point accountability goes a long way to making processes work better. I think it's as simple as that. It's consolidating the review responsibility in an agency or department that has the capability to do it.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
I have to ask you a question. A little bit earlier, I think the impression was left by one of the opposition questioners that perhaps people would fudge their environmental requirements if they had the opportunity. Does your industry do that?
President, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
No. I think that's a very unreasonable assertion. Absolutely not.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Okay. I'm not sure if that's maybe tied to some of the comments that Mr. Mulcair has made over the past couple of weeks in his attempt to try to drive wedges between eastern and western Canada, but I certainly hope not.
To Mr. Myers, I'm just wondering if you can talk a little bit about how resource development helps communities across Canada, especially in the manufacturing sector. Tie a link for us a little bit between manufacturing and the resource sector.
Then perhaps Mr. Smillie can conclude about how that then carries down to jobs, particularly in rural areas.
President and CEO, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters - Ontario Division
Clearly, if you're building up a supply chain across the country, then you're employing Mr. Smillie's members in manufacturing, and this is exactly what we've seen. We've tended tonight to focus our comments specifically around oil sands. We've been involved for a number of years in building up a supply chain across Canada for oil sands development. Every year in Edmonton more than 300 Canadian manufacturers, more than 250 Quebec manufacturers, led by provincial ministers, come to a buyer-seller forum that is hosted by us and by David's association.
They've found as a result of that forum literally billions of dollars of contracts that have allowed companies like Promation, for example, an auto parts company that has developed an internal welding technology for pressure vessels in the oil sands, to be now one of the leading technology companies in the Canadian nuclear industry, with technology that it's exporting around the world.
Those types of opportunities right across the country have enabled many manufacturers to find new customers, bring new products to market, succeed in export markets, and employ Mr. Smillie's members.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
If we were to stop resource development in the country, how many manufacturing jobs would be lost? Do you have any idea?
President and CEO, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters - Ontario Division
If we stopped resource development in the country, I think certainly the impact would be far beyond manufacturing. But I think for every job in the resource sector, you're probably looking at eight jobs around that in terms of manufacturing or services employment.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Anderson.
Mr. Myers, Mr. Smillie, perhaps you will get an opportunity in the next round of questioning to address that, but Mr. Anderson's time has expired.
Ms. Quach, for up to five minutes, please.