Subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Finance on Bill C-38 Committee on May 30th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

I don't think I'm doing anything. I'm simply here....

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

You asked for 30 seconds. You tried to beg people—

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Mr. Chisholm, you called for a recorded vote. I'll respect that.

Mr. Toone.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I'm just wondering, if we want a fact-based report, shouldn't we...? We're here to get facts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

I understand that. I'm not disputing your opinion. I'm simply trying to get some direction. I have some rules—

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

But the direction was the agenda that was before us today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Mr. Toone, I understand that, but I was also approached by members of the committee and the analysts. In order to give them some drafting instructions, I would need either unanimous consent of the committee to extend the sitting hours, which I don't think I'm going to have, or I would need a motion right now. Otherwise, we simply proceed with a line of questioning and provide no direction to the analyst. This is for you guys to decide. This isn't my decision. I'm your humble servant as the chair of the committee.

I've heard a motion; there's a motion on the table. I have a call for a recorded vote, which is completely within order.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Kamp just finished an intervention. I think it's only fair that we now get one on this side. I don't think there's any reason to skip this. We've respectfully listened to Mr. Kamp's intervention.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

I've heard that consideration.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I think it's time to have our kick at the can.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

We've been going back and forth about this for six minutes now. If we had just gone forward with our last questioner, we would have had the 10 minutes that you mentioned until 10:30. Unfortunately, that won't happen, because of these games that are being played.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Ms. Duncan, let's use this time efficiently.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I want to be clear: I do not play games. I tried to go to all parties to get consensus. This is important because the whole point of this process is to get a report. I do not want it based on talking points or ideology. I want it based on what we heard, and recommendations drawn from there. I think that's going to require a good discussion. If it occurs at 10:30, I'm afraid it will get rushed through in two minutes, and it's far too important for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

In the interests of time, let's get to it so we can have a decision one way or the other.

Mr. Clerk, we have a motion and a request for a recorded vote, that the committee now move to drafting instructions—

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. Who did the motion come from? I didn't hear it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Mr. Anderson.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

I would like to thank Mr. Fisher, Mr. Hazell, Mr. Kneen, and Mr. Thomas for appearing at such a late hour before our committee. I know your interventions are very much appreciated by the members.

Right now we'll suspend for a moment, and then we'll move to the drafting instructions for the analysts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Colleagues, thank you so much. I appreciate that that was a difficult discussion, but we have a few minutes now to give some drafting instructions to the analysts. I'm prepared to entertain a speaking list.

Ms. Duncan, followed by Mr. Chisholm.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to be really clear in my remarks. We've been given 16 hours to review this, a section of the bill, and in Minister Siddon's words, we can't erode 144 years of history.

Environmental assessment is about getting data, analyzing data, and making evidence-based decisions. Surely this has to be an evidence-based process or it will be seen as a failure, and this process is being very carefully watched. The report should include testimony or evidence, and real recommendations should be drawn from that testimony. If this process is not followed, we will no doubt have a report that's based on ideology or mere talking points. The reality is that this has to be given the time it needs. People will be able to read the testimony. They can compare the testimony to what could look like talking points.

If time is of an issue.... I know there is a deadline, but this committee does control its destiny. We need to take the time. We need to get it right. I don't want to just submit my ideas, and I would hope that all sides would not want to just submit their ideas, but that we would have a real report, we would draw recommendations from the testimony, and we'd take the time to do it right.

The way this is going, my guess is we will probably need a dissenting report, so I want to ask for that up front.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Thank you, Ms. Duncan.

I would hope we could reach some form of consensus on at least as much as we can. It's going to be a difficult thing to do, given the timelines we have.

Thank you very much for that.

Mr. Chisholm.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Chairman, I hope the analysts, as they normally do, would be able to provide us with a summary of the testimony, including all witnesses. I would hope there wouldn't be any witnesses excluded. And yes, we may end up with dissenting reports.

I think we should be clear that we will spend about 14 hours on a bill that makes significant changes to 70 pieces of legislation. I don't think we can forget what we're actually about here, and those are the parameters the government has put around this.

We've heard from witnesses. They've come out and have given their testimony, and we need to make sure we reflect that in the report. At the very least, it's important to accurately reflect that, and then I guess it will be up to members of the committee to decide the weight that is given to what witnesses. Maybe we could have a bit of that discussion tomorrow.

It's going to be very difficult, no question—I agree with you—to be able to do that in the time given. The consequences of passing this bill are significant, but it's clear what the government has in mind, and they are the majority, regardless of what the impact is.

That is my two cents' worth.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chisholm.

Ms. Rempel.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

I'll give my time to Mr. Anderson, if he so desires.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

There is nobody else on the list, so we can simply move to Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I think we're moving in a reasonable direction. I think we have to make sure we're bringing our own material with us when we come here tomorrow night. Clearly everyone is going to have it. You're talking dissenting reports; you're talking report. We need to come prepared with our material.

I don't know how fair it is to the analysts to tell them now that they need to include every witness in the summary of everything that's happened here. We need to take some responsibility for making sure the things we think are important are included, and that we bring them a full content tomorrow, realizing there is going to be some additional information in the first two hours.

I think we can start to move in the direction of summarizing with an outline form, or as best as possible, and then bring our own material and make sure we're prepared with our own content.

I guess I should point out as well that it doesn't amend 70 acts; it amends 10 acts, and several of them in very small ways.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

Mr. Chisholm, do you have some more points to make?