Subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Finance on Bill C-38 Committee on May 30th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Mr. Chisholm.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

How about this? How about we invite the ministers in tomorrow night? We have two hours set aside to have a discussion about the report. We've given some direction already, or we've had some discussion over the direction, in terms of the summary and including the witnesses and that kind of stuff. So what if we take the time and hear from the ministers? Then if the analysts need further time, we would be prepared to convene for a short period on Friday morning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

I've heard two proposals, one from Mr. Chisholm and one from Ms. Duncan. We do have a defined work schedule that we voted on, and I can't do this.... I would need a specific timeframe to be put forward in the form of a motion. I'll give you a minute to think about that if you choose to, and then we would have to make a determination on that. I can't do this without authority from the committee.

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

I'm not sure I have much more to contribute, other than to say that if it is—and it is the fact—a fact that the finance committee has to complete clause-by-clause by Tuesday at 11:59 or it will be deemed done in short order, backing up, I think we have to have some kind of report finished by tomorrow night. At least that's the way it looks to me.

Now, who do we have scheduled for tomorrow at this point? Mr. Chisholm is talking about substituting witnesses already scheduled for the ministers.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'll be happy to put it in a motion, Mr. Chairman, that in the two hours that we have scheduled tomorrow night for deliberation over the report, we invite the ministers, and we schedule them to come in during that two-hour section.

I'll put this in parentheses. We've already given the analysts some degree.... I'm just continuing with the motion and—

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Mr. Chisholm, can you give me one second? I do have a speakers' list after Mr. Kamp. I allowed you to speak. If you're going to have a motion....

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

I appreciate that. I understand, but I have to follow the process here. I thought you were seeking—

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I guess that's what I was trying to do, to be clear—

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

I thought you were just trying to clarify that, but if you're going to move a motion, then I'll put you on the speakers' list.

I believe next I have Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Chair, we need to stick to our original schedule. If you start looking at what we've been assigned to do, we need to have this report done. If there are any amendments, they need to be in 48 hours prior to clause-by-clause, which means it needs to be done Thursday night. Those amendments also need to be in both official languages, if there are any.

We don't have time, and I actually think it's probably extremely impractical to expect that the ministers will be here on 20 hours' notice. They're typically gone on Fridays. I don't think they're going to be around anyway.

If you want to make the proposal or not, I will make a proposal that we stay with our original schedule, which is that we hear witnesses as scheduled for the first two hours; we begin to work on our report tomorrow night in those second two hours; and we try to get that done as quickly as possible so we can get it to the clerks for translation. It hopefully will be done, on our behalf, on Thursday night, passed to them so they can get it translated and get it to the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

I believe the default or the status quo is what you're proposing. I don't think I need a motion to maintain the status quo; I would only need a motion to entertain moving something different from the status quo.

Mr. Chisholm.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I will make a motion. I'll preface it by saying this. I appreciate the fact that we have a tight timeline here, but I don't think I need to remind anybody here about the gravity of the situation.

The ministers have offered publicly, if invited, to come and visit the committee. If we have votes tomorrow night, which we may well have, the ministers will be in their seats. The question of availability should not be a problem.

Given that, and given the fact that we heard tonight the recommendation that, at the very least, we consider the designated project list before we move forward with this bill, I would move that we invite the ministers to come before this committee in the second section of our time slot set aside tomorrow night for deliberation of the bill. The analysts have been given some direction already. If they require additional information, then we agree that either early Friday morning, or Thursday night, if they need it, before we leave, we can provide it to them then. They can start tomorrow, frankly. I don't mean to suggest that it's as easy as that.

Anyway, in essence that's my motion, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Do we have an understanding that we have a motion on the floor?

Ms. Duncan, you had your hand up to speak, but because we've now got a motion on the floor, did you want to speak to the motion currently on the floor, or did you want to resume your discussion after the disposition of that motion?

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I can speak to the motion because I think it's a very good motion. I'm wondering if I can do a friendly amendment. Instead of being pedantic and say we're only going to have four hours on Thursday...I've done committee meetings where we had to get the report done and we sat for five and a half hours because we wanted it right. Perhaps we aren't going to end at 10:30 on Thursday. We take the time that's required. That would be my friendly amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

I appreciate that, but I do have a motion from Mr. Chisholm. My understanding of the motion is that we use tomorrow night to invite the Ministers of Fisheries and Oceans, Environment Canada, and Natural Resources to testify in the first two hours—

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

The second two. We've got the first two scheduled for witnesses. So it would be the second two hours. It would be from 8:30 to 10:30.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Okay. That motion would make a lot more sense to me if it also included the time that we were going to have...then if it's going to be accepted, you're displacing the consideration of the draft report.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I guess what I said in my—

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Let's just deal with this, and then if we need to, we can deal with that.

Does anybody want to speak to this motion?

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Chair, we're going to oppose this motion. We had an agreement earlier as to how we're going to conduct ourselves, how we're going to see this through to the end. We have a reasonably good plan, and probably the only one that's going to be able to get it done in time.

Ministers are also typically gone on Thursday night and Friday. So I don't know if Mr. Chisholm is serious or playing games here, but that's okay, we'll vote on the motion. We will be opposing it.

We want to stick to our original plan, which was agreed. I think it was actually unanimous, when we agreed to it, that we move ahead and begin to hear and discuss the report in the second two hours tomorrow night, and get that done as quickly as possible so that we can get it back to the committee and we can have our influence on what the committee is deciding.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

Ms. Duncan, on the motion. I can't accept a friendly amendment. Are you actually going to move it?

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Yes, we had the same, that there would need to be an extension of the time after. That was my point. I will be supporting this motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Mr. Chisholm.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'd just like to clarify that it's been said a couple of times that we had an agreement on the time limit. My understanding, from talking with others who were in the room, was that before there was any agreement reached on Friday, the meeting was adjourned.