Finance Committee on June 21st, 2006

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I have a question on that. You may have covered this before, but if, for example, in the community of Halifax, which we're going to be visiting, we have groups and organizations that we want to give some notice to, we would work through the clerk on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Yes, I'd encourage Canadians, who may take in these proceedings also, to direct their inquiries through the clerk's office.

I believe the deadline for making applications to appear is August 11, and the deadline for submissions or briefs to be brought forward is September 5. I encourage you, as we should encourage all our colleagues, to make sure that interested groups or individuals are made aware of the opportunity that they have to be part of this process.

I think the process will be very worthwhile, as it has been in the past, and will hopefully allow all of us to benefit and, through the most effective use of our time, produce a report that is of the greatest value to Canada and Canadians.

I'll close by offering a personal thank you to all committee members. As you're aware, it's been a number of years since I've chaired anything, and I really appreciate the support and encouragement committee members have offered to me. I thank you for that.

I must tell you that I'm very impressed with the quality of the people who have been on this committee, and who have taken part in it. Frankly, I believe we have a unique opportunity right now, because the partisanship that has sometimes shadowed previous committees, with proximity to the next federal election and so on, has often tended to influence the degree to which committee work is effective. I think we have an opportunity right now to work to genuinely put together some real proposals in the coming weeks and months that this government will be encouraged to act on as a result of this focused effort and the teamwork that we've demonstrated at this point in time. I thank you for that.

I want to wish all of you a tremendous summer, and to you and your families and your staff, I say enjoy yourselves, relax, get rested up, because we have a lot of work to do in the fall.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Yes, Mr. Pacetti.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

If I have to, it'll be a point of order. I have to reiterate that I understand the fact that you are a new chair, but we did ask at the beginning of the session that the Minister for National Revenue and the Minister of Finance appear. There doesn't seem to be a genuine effort on their part to appear or on the committee's part to make them appear. I'm not sure what the problem is.

The Minister of Finance was supposed to appear on Monday. That appearance was cancelled, but I understand that he appeared before the Senate committee. I'm not sure what the problem is there. This committee is available to meet at any time. I think it's an important committee.

I think the presence of the Minister of Finance is important for the independent budgetary office, especially since we're going to be voting on Bill C-2 again tomorrow, I think it is. There has to be an effort made to have the Minister of Finance here. I don't know what the answer is going to be, but if we're going to wait till the fall, I don't see what input we're going to have for that independent budgetary office.

Secondly, we also requested the Minister of National Revenue. The review of the CRA is going to drag on. We should have been able to complete it before we rose for the summer.

I also want to ask for the chair of the board to appear; and again, if the ministers are going to come and they're going to take the time, the least they could do is appear for at least an hour and a half to two hours so that all members, not just the opposing members, will have time to ask questions.

I haven't received any satisfactory answers. I've been requesting. I've been nice. I haven't tabled a motion, but if I need to, I'll table a motion, and if I have to filibuster, I'll filibuster. It's important that we get the ministers before the committee.

You can't function without having a minister before the committee. We understand we had him here for the budget. It was for an hour, and he had a five- or ten-minute opening, so that left us with 50 minutes to ask him questions on a budget document that was over 100 pages long.

I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but somehow I think I have to, because it's not acceptable that ministers don't appear before the committees that they're responsible for.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

I accept your intervention, of course.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

And I would respond first of all by saying that I think all committee members share the desire to have the ministers appear here as often as is necessary and possible.

It gives me a profound sense of déjà vu as I listen to your comments, because I recall others making those similar comments in previous committee meetings of the finance committee as well, under previous governments. It's of course a concern that is frequently and quite necessarily raised.

That being said, in respect of the revenue minister, we are continuing our review, as you pointed out, and will continue, and the revenue minister has given every indication to us that she will appear in the fall. So that I don't see as a major concern, frankly.

On the issue of the parliamentary budget office, as you are aware, the minister was given very little notice, frankly, and agreed on very short notice to come, and then circumstances arose that made that impossible for him.

That being said, we're making every possible effort to have the accountable ministers come to the committee, and we'll continue to do that.

Madame Ablonczy, you had a comment?

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

It's just to say that as parliamentary secretary I made your critic aware of the circumstances in which the minister found himself this week. He certainly wanted to be here but could not be, and your critic was made aware of that. The minister was able later in the evening to spend two hours with the Senate committee.

As you probably know, quite often on these matters the parliamentary secretary is designated as the witness. Our minister very much wants to and intends to handle these matters himself, to give you that opportunity. Just know that there was certainly no reluctance and is no reluctance at all for the minister to appear. You can expect he will do it and will make himself available.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Mr. Christopherson, please.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To follow up on the point made, it probably is going to take at the very least a motion, I suspect, because something else could come up, and these things go on. I would recommend you get a motion and get it secured, but that's up to you.

I want to support the notion, though—I didn't realize we'd have enough time, because I thought this was coming to an end—that if there is time, it makes a lot of sense to have the chair of the board, if not the entire board, come in and at the very least say, “We think everything is wonderful and we're able to handle it.” If we have the time, if we're going to do justice to reviewing a statute where there is an oversight body—particularly when this is a unique governance model very different from what we have across the rest of the public sector—we have to get used to the idea that where this model is used we have not only the commissioner come in on behalf of the bureaucratic side, but also the board representing the arm's-length oversight of that agency. I certainly would like to see that done.

If you need a motion, I'll make it, but if you just take it under advisement and act on it, that's fine too, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

That certainly will be the plan, Mr. Christopherson. I think it's good advice and I accept it, certainly.

Seeing no further interventions, I wish you all the best for a good summer.

Yes, Mr. Pacetti.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

This is on a positive note.

I'll leave it in your hands concerning the minister, but if we can—and this again may be my own personal willingness to want to close this file—we should try to get the CRA done as soon as we get back, and then, if we want, start the pre-budget consultations and some of the other issues we have coming forward.

I was at the industry committee yesterday. It came out with an interim report on Canadian manufacturers. It was a study done on globalization and all these factors. If you have two minutes, in private perhaps, you could speak to the chair of the industry committee, because they've already had some of the groups that are probably going to testify in front of our committee. Perhaps not to eliminate, but to alleviate some of the work we're going to have, or to eliminate some of the repetition, you could speak to him.

There might be different ideas we can work together on respecting certain issues. They're going to also be looking at travelling to look at certain sectors. Perhaps you could speak to him, and maybe we can coordinate something. I think we'll have some common issues there.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your indulgence.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, Mr. Pacetti.

Thank you, committee members.

We will adjourn.