Evidence of meeting #23 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
On an individual basis, I think it helps students, but it doesn't really help anybody get to university that otherwise isn't going to go. Is that a fair statement?
National Director, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
Absolutely. I think it's not a front-end but a back-end issue. When individual students are looking into going to university or college, they're not going to be looking at the tax credits they're going to get; they're going to feel the sticker shock of the tuition.
I'd like to point out one more thing, which I think is really important here. There's an enormous lack of congruency between the provinces right now. You have provinces like Nova Scotia whose tuition is $2,000 more expensive than the average. This is where the federal government I think really has a role to come in and say, “Listen, let's build a national strategy”. And it's getting out of hand. There are debt loads that differ according to provincial tuition, and I think this is going to become a very large concern as the system stratifies itself even more.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
I couldn't have said that better myself. That's well said.
Ms. Freiheit, the HCCC, which I think is a great organization, has done a lot to bring the health charities together so that they can speak with a common voice to our government. I've spent a lot of time in the last number of years with the Heart and Stroke Foundation.
On the issue of indirect costs, I agree with you. In fact, it's almost that we have invested so much in research at the university level, whereas years ago we couldn't get grants from the MRC; there wasn't enough money federally. Now, in fact, the Heart and Stroke Foundation and others are having challenging times getting research, because it's going to universities, which get the 22%, and maybe eventually 40%, in indirect costs. I'd look for anything else you want to say on that.
The other thing is that you espouse a policy that I absolutely support, which is making donations to charitable organizations equal to those of political organizations. I think that's great.
Liberal
Bloc
Paul Crête Bloc Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We are just as surprised as you are, Mr. McAvity and Mr. White, with the government decision to cut back Canadian museums' budgets. Before me, I have the Conservative Party of Canada's answers to a questionnaire that you sent them, a questionnaire that was probably sent to all other parties as well, last December during the electoral campaign.
The third question reads as follows:
3. Do you, along with your party, support investing an additional $75 million per year as needed to implement these recommendations?
The Conservative Party answered the following:
The Conservative Party of Canada supports stable and long term funding for Canadian museums. We believe that it is important to ensure continuity in programming and that stable and predictable funding is necessary to this effect.
Allow me to emphasize the words “stable and predictable”. Further along, it reads:
Canadian museums [...] are increasingly crippled by underfunding [...] rest assured that a Conservative government would make generous funding of Canadian museums a priority.
When you compare the answers given here by the Conservative Party during the election with the announcement of budget cutbacks made yesterday, what is your reaction? I would like you to talk to us about the impact of these cutbacks. We are talking about a reduction of $4,630,000 over two years, which represents 25% this year and another 25% next year. Given that six months of this fiscal year have already lapsed, the effect of these cutbacks will be devastating.
Chairman, Canadian Museums Association
We are surprised and shocked. We would have thought, because there were a lot of discussions over several years, that there would be some discussion with us so that they would have our feedback beforehand, and maybe we could have had some influence. It is a big surprise for us.
Executive Director, Canadian Museums Association
Another reaction our community has had is that we seem to be grouped with a number of organizations that are now considered to be wasteful, inefficient, and not delivering appropriate services. That, to us, is a complete surprise.
The general public certainly thinks, and I think most people believe, that museums—like libraries, like universities, like other public institutions—are important and fundamental to a well-civilized society. The kind of damage that can be done this way can have a long-term systemic impact on our fundraising ability as well.
I sincerely hope that label does not apply; I do not think it applies. I know the museum community. I've worked in this community for close to 30 years; I know virtually all the institutions in Canada and the people who work in them. These are good, honest people who work hard for very low salaries because they're committed to preserving our history, to sharing our history and our values to people in the communities and people in the world.
Bloc
Paul Crête Bloc Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Can you give us concrete examples of the repercussions of these cutbacks this year and next year? Mr. White talked about the money given to the association, obviously, but also about the money that is directly given to individual museums, amounts that vary considerably.
Do you have examples of choices that will need to be made over the next two years?
Executive Director, Canadian Museums Association
Quite simply, what will be happening is instead of having exhibit openings, we're going to have exhibit closings. Museums are going to close. We've already seen that. In Quebec City, le Musée d’art Inuit Brousseau closed last year. It was a terrific museum dedicated to Inuit art. President Chirac visited it when he was in Quebec City. We've seen this with other small communities across Canada.
We're going to see staff dwindling. We believe further cuts are coming in such areas as student employment. There is an excellent summer student employment program through museums, art galleries, art archives and libraries. We believe cuts are coming to that.
I think the bigger, longer-term question is really our commitment to our culture and our heritage. I think Canadians, and you as parliamentarians, need to ask that question. Is our culture, our heritage, important to us? If it is, at what price, and how do we finance it?
We believe our recommendations were well founded, were arrived at through wide consultation with our community, were widely accepted, and were for the most part very reasonable. We were not expecting the federal government to do everything. We see that we have a responsibility to be efficient and practical in what we do to raise attendance and raise our own revenues. Over 59 million visitors attend our museums each year or over half a million people who are card-carrying members of our institutions. These are very tangible results of success and of popularity. In one public opinion poll after another, 85% of people support the museums and want to see increased funding, and 65% of our international visitors visit our museums.
Paul Crête Bloc Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
For the government to have made such a decision, were you setting aside unused funds over the last three or five years? Did you receive a negative government assessment on the impact of museums?
Executive Director, Canadian Museums Association
The Department of Canadian Heritage did bring in a very innovative program that would help cultural institutions develop endowments. It was a very practical step. This was, I'm afraid to say, under a previous government. However, they excluded museums from that program, so we have not had the tools and mechanisms by which to develop long-term tools. These were matching components for endowment building.
Otherwise, in terms of developing our support, we've built gift shops. We've maximized on those. We charge admission. In the United Kingdom the government has withdrawn admission to the museums because it wants them to be free and accessible. We, on the other hand, are charging. Sometimes we have a free day so that people of low income can attend, but we want to make our museums open. We want to show things to people. We're not out being offensive. We support our first nations; we want to tell the story of our first nations. We want to tell the story of our communities across Canada, of the differences in this country, so that we can see the similarities between people. We want to show our artists and support our artists. We want to talk about minority groups--for example, the Muslim community in Vancouver. The Museum of Anthropology at the University of British Columbia was very successful--
Executive Director, Canadian Museums Association
There are bridges to be built. That's my point.
Bloc
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
Yes. Seven minutes go by quickly when you are invited to the finance committee.
Liberal
Conservative
Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. McAvity, apparently some announcement was made today with regard to funding for museums. We're just chasing right now to see what the particulars are, so before you sit there and ask, “What's our culture worth and are we willing to pay for it?”, I think you should temper your language a bit.
Executive Director, Canadian Museums Association
It would be most welcome to hear some good news. We haven't had any for quite a while.
Conservative
Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON
I hope you heap as much praise upon us as you have heaped crap in the last few days.
Executive Director, Canadian Museums Association
We work very closely with all political parties.
Conservative
Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON
Very good.
All right. Frank Stokes, we've worked together a little bit on the pension splitting issue. I'd like you to give some of my colleagues a little insight here. A coalition or an umbrella group has come together. You're one little piece of that, correct?