Evidence of meeting #25 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Good. Thank you.
Mr. Spickler, one of the things you mentioned was the encouragement of expanding the activity tax credit. Have you had the opportunity to present to the panel that was appointed by the finance minister? It's being chaired by Dr. Kellie Leitch, a very able individual. Have you had the opportunity to present the expansion of that credit and how it will eventually look when it's implemented on January 1, 2007?
President, Canadian Conference of the Arts
I'll let Mr. Pineau answer that question.
Conservative
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
Yes, we have. We were somewhat out of order, but we were well received and the message was supported by other people around the table, actually, who said, yes, artistic training is a major contribution to the well-being of our children and it should be considered as a natural extension of the government program.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
I appreciate the fact that you were able to do that and that the opportunity was there.
One of the questions I have is with respect to the focus you had on the future of children and their opportunity to participate, obviously, in the arts and what it does for our culture from one end of the country to the other, and your comment about the fact that it would have been good, from your perspective, not to pay down the debt. It seems to me to be a bit of a conflict, from the perspective that you are concerned about the future of culture and heritage in the arts in our country, and at the same time trying to extract the money immediately, rather than being focused on making sure our children aren't saddled with an enormous federal debt that would have us paying off debt instead of investing in the areas you're speaking of.
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
I'm sorry, the point is not about not paying the debt. As was said around the table, it's a good thing to pay the debt. To take all the leeway that the government has to pay the debt rather than address some of the really glaring issues is something we question. We think a balanced approach should be taken. That's the only position we're taking here.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
One of the things you hadn't commented on was the announcement the Minister of Finance made with respect to the removal of the capital gains tax from contributions to the arts. It's projected to make an increase of about $100 million annually. The last time I spoke with the finance minister, that was up to between $50 million and $75 million already this year. That's an obvious benefit that is pretty direct to those who receive it. You haven't commented on it in the brief, so I'm wondering what your position is on that.
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
The Canadian Conference of the Arts has supported that request, which was put forward in the round in April through our association with Imagine Canada and all the voluntary sector. So we support that thing.
I have to say, though--and the minister himself pointed that out to me--that the first round in 1997 had not benefited the arts and cultural sector as much as other sectors. There are many reasons for that. It's an invitation for us to do more in order to access that money. However, I think it must be recognized that the arts and culture sector is at a disadvantage versus other areas, and it is also at a geographic disadvantage.
This type of measure, which is certainly beneficial overall, goes more to health or education or other aspects that are higher in the collective psyche--and that's our responsibility partly--than, unfortunately, arts and culture. So that's the first difficulty.
The second difficulty is that arts and culture organizations can be very small organizations, and this calls for a lot of work. The third difficulty is that it benefits large communities. Arts and culture in Toronto may benefit a lot from it; arts and culture in Joliette may not.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Thank you, Chair.
My first question is to Ms. Wilson. There was a television program that aired recently--I think it was last night's news, actually--with respect to the receipt of flu vaccine. The program seemed to suggest that it was just simply a production issue. Is there any reason to be concerned that the flu vaccine will arrive in this country some time later than the flu vaccine will arrive in the United States?
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Public Health Association
Normally flu vaccine is given around the month of October because that's the typical start of flu season, so the longer you delay getting the vaccine, the more chances are that more people will contract influenza.
Yes, there's always concern when we have delays, whether it's in production or whether it's in determining what's going to be the mix that needs to go into the vaccine. What it really tells us, though, is that we're going to have to be a little more vigilant about washing our hands and doing all of the public health measures until we can all get our flu shots in November.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Thank you.
To the arts folks here, in one of your recommendations you suggest a $30,000 exemption for revenue derived from copyright and residual payments. Does that mean that if I were a teacher and an artist, and as a teacher I earned $60,000, I would be taxed, but if I earned $30,000 on top of being a teacher, that $30,000 would be tax free?
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
That is a suggestion that has been supported, by the way, by the Canadian Council of Chief Executives. The aim here is to encourage creativity and support it. That is the proposal. I can tell you that most artists are actually working as waiters and in all sorts of jobs to sustain themselves. The average income for artists in this country is $10,000 a year.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Yes, I appreciate the point and I appreciate the intention, but it would throw up a few peculiar anomalies from time to time.
Secondly, with respect to your basic personal deduction of $10,000, is that the basic personal exemption, or are you talking about something else? Are you using the word “deduction” as exemption?
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
I'm sorry, but yes, essentially what we mean is to identify with the lowest paid in this country and hike up the basic exemption.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
So the basic personal exemption for people who qualify as self-employed artists would be $10,000, but for other people it would be $8,500?
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
No. We're lining up with the rest of society and saying that this is probably the best way to help artists, to join ranks with the rest of the taxpayers.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
That's where the previous government was. We were on that path. Lord knows what's going to happen now.
With respect to over-accountability, I think in panels in years previous we heard from artists who had applied for grants...the paperwork has just gone crazy. Everything is covered every which way from Sunday, and they spend more time applying for the grant than they actually do in executing the grant. Is that the point of your last recommendation?
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
Yes, it is, and it's a point that we had the opportunity to make yesterday in front of the blue ribbon panel with all the sectors of the not-for-profit sector.
There are grants to artists, and they are problems, because if you give a grant to an artist to create something, it may be considered garbage now, but in 60 years' time it may sell for x million dollars. So it's very difficult to apply some criteria.
But in terms of organizations, there was a commonality of views around the table yesterday with the blue ribbon panel that there is over-accountability in many cases, particularly with organizations like--I'm sorry to take a personal example--the CCA, which has been funded each year by the federal government for the past 30 years. We've been in existence for 60 years. Each year we start from scratch. We start from scratch in establishing our credentials. We start from scratch in filling forms that keep changing, and we are the most accountable. Every quarter I have to report a breakdown of every activity that we've done by the minute. The Federal Accountability Act is going to add to that because we are considered as lobbyists, even though we do not represent any particular interest.
Liberal
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
Thank you.
Just quickly before we break, Mr. Akumalik, in your conclusion the majority of your recommendations were in terms of land claims and having us review what the Auditor General stated on land claims. What about the challenges that are faced not in the north but in the far north in terms of economic issues--handling your resources, the revenue from those resources? What is your position on that? I didn't hear much on that in your presentation.
Director, Government and Public Relations, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated
I will ask Mr. Campbell to answer that question for you, please.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
I noticed that when Mr. Akumalik was speaking, in the end he recommended mainly to look at land claims, but I know there are other needs with communities that are living in the far north--for example, taking possession of the resources, developing resources, infrastructure, and developing an economy so that people do have jobs that are proper and well-paying jobs. That issue was touched upon, but it wasn't recommended at the end. I was just a bit concerned about it.
Director, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated
Yes, generally, with regard to land claims, I suppose it's not totally able to be distinguished from the general development of the economy of Nunavut, and certainly one of the obstacles that we have found in trying to get implementation of their claim is the argument that there is not the funding available to do it. That is one of the things that really needs to be looked at carefully: how is it that funding is identified and provided to meet objectives that are provided in the land claim? The objectives in the land claim, for example, are in article 24, which is economic development. In article 24 the objective is to have Inuit comprising a representative sector of the workforce, that is, basically at all levels. They're a long, long way from that at the present time.
In our submission, the one we tabled, we emphasize the importance of the fact that development has to be comprehensive, that you cannot just do infrastructure apart from training, because doing infrastructure and bringing in all the workers from outside means, yes, you get the infrastructure, but you're still left with unemployed people at the end of it. So there's the training, the human resources development, and the capacity development. It's the same show.