Finance Committee on Oct. 2nd, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Yes, but you are a person and you can answer that question.

I'm asking quite seriously, because the ability to use technology, referenced in your answer, and the increased availability of new technology, poses interesting challenges, and not just for the aging--well, we're all an aging population, I suppose.

I am, of course, starkly reminded that I am a senior in this group, and quite seriously, if the definition of literacy is as you've described, then the increase in the availability of new technology in society would reduce literacy rates rather markedly, I would think.

[Sierra van der Meer]

I think it changes the literacy rates. I don't think it's as easy to say it reduces literacy rates, because we all know that a lot of 14-year-olds have an incredible grasp of technology, but it certainly changes the way we look at literacy.

One of the things the literacy community has recently done is really examine the place of basic technology in our definitions of literacy. As we are all well aware, computers, with the ability to send emails and the ability to access information electronically, are becoming things that are needed in order to fully participate in the workforce and, a lot of the time, to fully participate in society.

I don't think it's as easy as saying that BlackBerrys are reducing our literacy rates. I think that with evolving technology we have to develop the skills we need in order to succeed.

It's why literacy organizations are so important. They're able to use these new technologies and new information to try to help people learn in order to fully function in society.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Fair enough. As we heard the various presentations--and we're into three figures when it comes to the presentations we've heard. We were impressed by the vast majority of them, and certainly by yours.

One of the things that certainly comes through loud and clear is the interrelationship among various aspects of what we're hearing. For example, you spoke about the need for technological communication skills to be developed among our youth, and yet we have also heard a number of presentations on childhood obesity. Things interface, don't they?

The increased ability to communicate with people around the world in the comfort of your own home is being used by our youth. The outcome in many cases is that growing sedentary lifestyles are being adopted by young people.

We're seeing an interrelationship in a number of the presentations. Would you like to comment on that?

[Sierra van der Meer]

Well, I think you're absolutely right. Some of those relationships may have negative consequences, in terms of the one you're talking about and childhood obesity.

I have worked with Bobbie Morgan in the past. I think she used a good example when she was talking about pensions, or it may have been Thierry who said that pensioned seniors may have difficulty when filling out difficult paperwork. We know that literacy skills deteriorate with age, and we know that seniors are having difficulty when filling out paperwork. It seems a very wonderful solution to that would be to encourage senior literacy programs so that they have a better ability to fill out paperwork and they're better able to access the funding that's available to them.

I think you're absolutely right. One thing that we know about literacy is there's an interdependence in justice, health, and the economy, and probably in some of the things you were talking about on childhood obesity.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Ms. Morgan, perhaps your group would have mixed emotions about the increased ability that might occur with literacy programs for seniors.

For example, seniors need to be able to pay their taxes online. It seems to be a concern that Revenue Canada has, but it's a voluntary tax system in this country. You see how one program quite frequently butts up against another.

[Roberta Morgan]

Literacy is a problem, especially when we're trying to help seniors help themselves in regard to health programs. I know there's some wonderful information out there, but it's all in writing. We don't take literacy into consideration.

We also offer it in French and English. Are they the only two first languages in Canada?

Many of our older seniors don't have a very high literacy level. We use a grade 7 level when we're teaching our seniors. That may seem rude to you, but it's plain, it's simple, and it's understandable. Especially when you're dealing with immigrants and first nations people, yes, their levels of Canadian literacy are low.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you very much, Ms. Morgan.

We'll continue with Mr. Bagnell now. You have five minutes, sir.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

There was a debate earlier about whether there were cuts to the MAP program. Anyone who wants to know about all the cuts that we're talking about should go to the Government of Canada website or the Treasury Board website.

You'll see museums, and I think $9 million a year is mentioned. It's a tiny amount for the thousands of museums in Canada, and it's one of the most underfunded areas. You'll see the two-year saving of $4,630,000 right on the website.

If I get a chance later, I'll ask the museum people this. Did the cuts to the volunteer initiative and summer students also hurt you? Do you use volunteers? We all know the answer.

I'd also like to acknowledge Beth Mulloy, from the Yukon Literacy Coalition, who's over there getting coffee. Of all the input from Yukoners and Canadians, they seem to be most apoplectic and angry and find the cuts to literacy to be incomprehensible.

My question is to anyone who wants to answer, but it's particularly to museums and literacy and Sierra.

Over and above being angry about these cuts across Canada, for groups in the Yukon, the second biggest problem is that people have come to me and said there was no consultation. This came right out of the blue, and it's surprising that they're going to have to make these dramatic adjustments, lay off people, etc., not knowing when it's coming.

How much consultation, if any, was there with the museums and literacy in particular, and anyone else who was cut?

[Sierra van der Meer]

I think you're absolutely right, there was no consultation and we were shocked. I'm not sure what the communication protocol is between government officials, the ministers, and the politicians and the bureaucracy, but we were told that our funding was coming; we were told it was going to be delayed slightly.

In fact, the call for proposals was opened the last week of August and closed on September 15. For those of you who have written HRDSC proposals--I'm not sure if that's still the acronym, but I think we know what I'm talking about--you know they're extremely difficult, they're extremely long, and they are very detailed. So we went ahead and wrote the proposals as we were asked. We spent hundreds of hours preparing these, and eleven days after the close of the call for proposals, we were told there was no money--eleven days.

So not only were we unprepared, not only was it unexpected--basically, I think as any normal person would, we assumed the money would be available because they had opened up the call for proposals, because they said there was funding available. Then to have it just close down was shocking, especially because the funding was so late this year, because it kept being delayed, because we were told that the new minister just needed some more time to relook at it, that it was going to come, it was coming, it was coming. So we were already working on a delayed schedule. We had hoped to have our money four or five months earlier, so it was not a pleasant surprise.

[Rebecca Jansen]

I'll just add to that. Further to not being consulted...the territorial and provincial museums associations get together probably twice a year to discuss issues such as MAP funding and summer student funding, and we have sent letters to the Minister of Canadian Heritage on both issues. I don't believe we received a response from the minister on either of those issues.

With MAP this year, our main issue is that people who have put in funding applications for MAP in November still hadn't heard come February. To try to plan a museum and projects around that sort of timeline is just impossible.

Then with the consultations we did have in the previous museums policy, I think we made it very clear that we needed more funding, not less funding. So the announcement last week was a bit of a shock.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

And on volunteers and summer students, did those cuts hurt you too?

[Rebecca Jansen]

Volunteers are definitely a number one source for museums; I don't think museums could exist without volunteers. So to have those programs cut as well is very detrimental to our success. Summer student funding is...I can't stress the importance of that. Museums are often run by volunteers, so without summer student funding, who are we going to have to man the front doors, who are we going to have to interpret the tours, everything? It's essential.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you very much.

We'll continue with Mr. Dykstra for five minutes.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Graham, we had a pretty good discussion this morning in terms of the presentations about the impact of global warming and the focus and concern, and all of us, whichever province or territory we live in, understand it's an issue we need to deal with.

One of the interesting points you've made, or that's in the presentation in the introduction, is that the trend of global warming suggests that these resources may become more easily accessed in the future. I thought it would be interesting to see or to hear from you how global warming actually may have a positive effect, or work to your benefit from a Yukon perspective, in the results for natural resources.

[Doug Graham]

I guess it's the exploration for those resources that probably would benefit from global warming. I've lived here all my life. I can remember as a kid going to school. We used to have two or three weeks a year of minus 40° and maybe one of minus 50°. I don't think we've experienced minus 40° in the last couple of years even for an extended period of time. It is having an impact.

I think, though, the benefit to the exploration would be in inverse proportion to the deterioration in so many other things that are happening. So it's a small point that would benefit a small part of our industry, but overall the impact on so many other things, which would be detrimental, far overrides that.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I appreciate it. You didn't necessarily have to rationalize it for me. I've read your briefing and heard it, but I just thought it was an interesting point within the context of your presentation.

Further to that, on page 3, you say:

The Yukon government has estimated that over $300 million is required to meet the needs of infrastructure in communities while over $1.3 billion is needed to link those communities and foster economic development.

I wonder if you could expand on that a little bit in terms of the linking and the aspects of economic development, and how that's a benefit to the Yukon.

[Doug Graham]

I think many of the Yukon government's numbers are based on improvements to the road system, definitely the rail system that has been proposed to be built through the Yukon to connect Alaska to the lower 48, and a number of other infrastructure needs for joining our communities. As you probably know, Old Crow is not joined by road, in any event, so it would also include things like airports in many of our communities that don't currently have them, whereas our community infrastructure is seen as a municipal responsibility. That would be the difference.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thanks.

I want to say to Mr. Bagnell that I appreciate the fact that we have enjoyed a very hospitable time here in your riding. The folks have been first class. But I did want to make sure that you didn't allow the facts to get in the way of a good story with respect to the comments you made about funding for museums. In fact, it's not $9 million or $10 million or $11 million; it's actually $245 million that the federal government invested in museums across the country. So it certainly pales in comparison to the amount you may have mentioned earlier on. I just wanted to make sure we clarified that.

To that point, I wanted to hear from both museum folks, and, if I could, from Ms. van der Meer. I appreciate the fact that everywhere I go in this country I continually get to run into Dutch folks, so that's a good thing to remember.

Have you already seen the impact it's going to have specifically on you? Have any of your programs been cut as of yet?

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

There's about one minute remaining, so a brief answer from each of you, if possible.

[Sierra van der Meer]

We will close our doors by January 1 unless we have money, and that means no more information sharing, no more community work, no more family literacy initiatives, no more practitioner training.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

You've received notice that all of your funding is going to be cut?

[Sierra van der Meer]

Yes, we're received notice that we're not getting any funding.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Okay.

[Patricia Cunning]

We have an existing program, which will end March 31.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

You've been told that it won't be renewed?