Evidence of meeting #26 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you to the presenters. It's quite an experience to come out here, and I understand the challenges are different than when we travel to other urban centres.
Thank you again for your briefs.
I have a couple of quick questions. The first one is to Ms. Morgan from the Council on Aging.
You say that the seniors are discouraged from working. Do you mean that just from a financial point of view, because of the clawback of the GIS and the OAS?
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Is there any other reason that seniors are discouraged? Is there an age factor as well?
President, Yukon Council on Aging
There is this thing called ageism. I think it has been going on for generations, where the older worker is looked down upon as, oh, that old fellow, or that old gal. I think we have ageism laws now. But I think those—
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
But in your brief, you were speaking mainly to the fact that there's a financial disincentive to go out and work. Is that it?
President, Yukon Council on Aging
Yes, it is, and I think it's a terrible shame that when we have all those skilled people out there, we're not using them. Our brains don't die.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
So what would your solution be? There should be no clawback on the old age pension and the GIS should be just normal income?
President, Yukon Council on Aging
As I said, I think the GIS shouldn't be touched until that poor person comes up to the poverty level. But I understand there is no such thing. The government doesn't recognize a poverty level in Canada. Am I correct in that?
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
We can establish an amount. We don't have to say poverty level, but we can say over $20,000. We can recommend that. That's why I'm asking you. That's what you're here for.
President, Yukon Council on Aging
Yes, I think we have to take a complete look at our whole pension system. For instance, I have neighbours who are very poor because they can't get enough GIS to keep them alive. And yet we can send OAS outside the country, and help people in other countries, through our income tax? I don't think so.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Okay. If we can get a bit better recommendation with some teeth in it, I'd appreciate that, and you can send it along to the clerk. I think that's what we're looking for.
President, Yukon Council on Aging
All right. I would recommend that there be a level, that they are allowed to make so much.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Our time is limited, so I'd rather you thought about it and you gave it to us in writing. You can send it to the clerk, and we'd appreciate it.
Sierra, in answer to your question, the reason you're here is to help us recommend to the finance minister what Canadians would like to see in the next budget. So we don't necessarily need to know whether you're a person or not, but we'd like to have your opinion anyway.
Communication Coordinator, Yukon Literacy Coalition
But it helps that I'm a person?
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Yes.
In your brief, you state that literacy programming was cut because it was categorized as not having good value for money.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
What kind of criteria would be put into a literacy program to convince government that they are getting value for money? That is I think the key in most programs the government has.
Communication Coordinator, Yukon Literacy Coalition
It's interesting because Statistics Canada came out with the statement that a 1% increase in literacy skills would lead to a $15 billion increase in the GDP. So they already have gone into finding research to show that there's a link between literacy levels and the GDP and economy. As far as I can tell, using that statistic, the government has already researched and found that there is a link between the two. So how would they know that it's good value for money? They would go back and look at their existing research.
Liberal
Communication Coordinator, Yukon Literacy Coalition
Was it a fluke that they came up with that number?
Communication Coordinator, Yukon Literacy Coalition
Well, that would be pretty sad if they spent all that research time and money to come up with a random number. I'm assuming that it's--
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
So you're comfortable with those statistics and those numbers?
Communication Coordinator, Yukon Literacy Coalition
That was in 1996, I believe, the first year that the international adult literacy and skills survey was released. So it was ten years ago last year.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
If you want to join in and ask a couple of questions, you can go ahead.
Just quickly, Mr. Graham, I have a question about the infrastructure money.
One of the observations you made is that the infrastructure programs are not flexible enough for rural versus urban or small communities. Are the infrastructure programs that exist not flexible as they stand right now?